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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
 Posted - 03/08/2008 : 10:26:11
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That's what the news sources say:
| To study planet formation around Alpha Centauri B, the team ran repeated computer simulations, evolving the system for the equivalent of 200 million years each time. Because of variations in the initial conditions, each simulation led to the formation of a different planetary system. In every case, however, a system of multiple planets evolved with at least one planet about the size of Earth. In many cases, the simulated planets had orbits lying within the habitable zone of the star. |
This hopeful news is legit: even The Bad Astronomer has picked up on it.
This may help make up for the fact that Mars has no water after all. I like how he ends that blog entry.
 Let's just hope that this doesn't turn out to be a false alarm like that! So, I included the original news article itself!
Note the careful language Phil uses in the planet article. At least real scientists learn, eh?
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
Edited by - the_ignored on 03/08/2008 10:26:36
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
 Posted - 03/08/2008 : 13:23:02 [Permalink]
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| Good post and Mars is very dry - but just to clarify we still don't know if Mars has microbial life or not and the planet has plenty of ice and carbon dioxide as well as evidence of once flowing water long ago. |
Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2008 : 13:52:00 [Permalink]
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It may turn out that not having yet seen planets at Alpha Centauri is a good thing, since the planets first discovered were huge "super-Jupiters" in crazy close or elliptical orbits. That's why they could be detected.
But their orbits would have probably eliminated any habitable planets in the liquid-water Blue Zone. So the fact that no planets have been detected yet near our nearest neighbors is in a sense a hopeful "sign." "Earths" would be a little hard to see, even that close up. But now we have a general hint as to what to look for.
Wouldn't it be cool if such a planet, and an oxygen atmosphere, were detected so close? 4.3 lightyears. If we could go .5 c, we could get there in about nine years.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 03/08/2008 13:52:30 |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2008 : 18:02:30 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
...If we could go .5 c, we could get there in about nine years. |
Allowing also for protracted acceleration and deceleration periods relative to the Alpha Centauri system. Maybe less protracted with robotic ships with detachable probes.  |
Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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BlueCollarScientist
New Member
23 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2008 : 08:24:18 [Permalink]
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The paper behind the Alpha Centauri story is certainly interesting. I always find press releases like this disappointing, and the first question I had was, what orbital plane to they think the hypothesized planet will be in? Obviously something favorable, since they said it should be detectable, but what, exactly....
Reading the paper revealed:
1) It will be in the same plane as Alpha Centauri B, which serves the same dynamical role as a gas giant in our solar system.
2) They're hypothesizing at least one, but up to three or four, planets,
3) with almost half (42%) in the habitable zone,
4) but with only 1-2 being under 2 Earth masses,
5) they're talking about a radial-velocity observing campaign with a 1-meter class telescope, which is nice and small, the kind of project that could be done by a small college or university.
Also, Figure 1 and 2 from the paper should have been released in the press release, just for geeks like me. |
http://bluecollarscientist.com/ |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2008 : 08:36:18 [Permalink]
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| Orbital planes! Crap, I never even thought of that one! |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2008 : 09:18:27 [Permalink]
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Thanks for the comments, and that link, BlueCollar! Here are the two figures you mentioned, converted via Photoshop:
My guess is the most likely situation judging by those graphics is one large "earth" in what I call the Blue Zone.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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BlueCollarScientist
New Member
23 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2008 : 23:13:54 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
Orbital planes! Crap, I never even thought of that one!
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I have enough interest, expertise, and perspective on the subject (I flatter myself) that I thought of several pertinent questions after reading the news accounts, and I'm preparing to blog on the peer-reviewed research (pretty much ignoring the press release). This is good, solid research, and the modeling makes a couple of assumptions that completely justifies quelling some of the excitement, whilst still justifying pursuing falsification of their hypothesis.
I'm just wondering when the paper will be published. I can't actually cite the paper according to this service's standards until I have a page number. And I believe in the mission of that group, and don't want to blog on the topic without including them. Maybe I should just ask them how to blog on a preprint.... |
http://bluecollarscientist.com/ |
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BlueCollarScientist
New Member
23 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2008 : 23:54:13 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
My guess is the most likely situation judging by those graphics is one large "earth" in what I call the Blue Zone.
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Yes, but the fact that the size scale differs so dramatically from the distance scale makes the graphic potentially a little misleading. Some of those planets that look to be out on the edge of the blue zone are actually well within it.
From the text I'm getting that the authors adopt a fairly conservative (but longstanding, from 1993) definition of the habitable zone. Real Earth life could survive on planets somewhat outside the blue zone, and that is interesting to me. My initial assessment is that some of the planets just outside the blue zone are actually pretty plausible for supporting life, assuming life is mundane. (The specific hypothesized planets I have in mind are the ones in run r900_1 and r700_3.)
So, umm, yes. VERY interesting paper. Cuts through a lot of speculative argumentation about the possibility of stable planet formation in systems like alpha Cen A/B and provides some good modeling and statistical information to support its conclusions.
Now I just want a 1-meter telescope, a high-dispersion spectrograph, and a grad student to help me with the gnarly math. |
http://bluecollarscientist.com/ |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2008 : 05:35:20 [Permalink]
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Thanks, BCS! It's great to have some close at hand who understands this stuff much better that I. (Actually, many here do.)
My main "expertise" is having read good (and bad) science fiction for half a century. The mere possibility of a habitable world or two as close as our stellar next-door neighbor has me quite excited.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 03/11/2008 05:36:06 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2008 : 10:51:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
The mere possibility of a habitable world or two as close as our stellar next-door neighbor has me quite excited.
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Me too...
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2008 : 11:18:12 [Permalink]
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| I hope they will find an Earth like planet, it will be really close and therefore easier to study. It's very exciting to imagine that such worlds might be that "close". I'm hoping for an Earth-like planet with an atmosphere, liquid water and a nice temperature... But we'll have to wait and see. Whatever planet they find there, if any, would be a good target for our first interstellar probes. |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2008 : 13:25:27 [Permalink]
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| What if we can find evidence of biological life! |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2008 : 14:48:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
What if we can find evidence of biological life!
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I believe that free atmospheric oxygen (detectable via absorption lines in spectroscopy?) would be a strong indicator of life.
I don't know if that detection is possible. I don't know if the presumed planetary plane could put an earth-like planet between one of the host stars and earth, or whether some other occultation is possible. Or whether there's some other way to detect atmospheric chemicals.
Anyone have any of these answers?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 03/12/2008 14:49:33 |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2008 : 16:23:25 [Permalink]
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Mooner, and Mabuse, and Maverick.....
See, I told you a long time ago that flying saucers full of little green men were REAL. And now this proves I was RIGHT! NEENER, NEENER, NEENER !!!
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2008 : 04:37:28 [Permalink]
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The highest resolution a Hubble instrument has is 0.03 arcsec, and a planet orbiting Alpha Centauri B at 0.8 AU would seem to be (roughly calculating from the top of my head) 0.5 arcsec from the star. That would be 16 pixels apart.
Based on that, it could be possible to detect a planet if you could screen out the glare from A Cen B. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Theoretically, Alpha Centauri should have planets?
