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skeptic griggsy
Skeptic Friend
USA
77 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2008 : 07:07:02 [Permalink]
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Dawkins is not arrogant even with the likes of that shallow thinker Alister McGrath! He is ever so nice. Now McGrath has the temerity to challenge Dawkins with silly talk in his book on Dawkins.
Another silly thinker is John Haught, who makes up stuff about naturalism but actually doesn't quite understand it and tries to show there are other venues of knowledge by just saying so- no evidence. I find him so arrogant!
Thanks, Starman!
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Fr. Griggs rests in his Socratic ignorance and humble naturalism. Logic is the bane of theists.Religion is mythinformation. Reason saves, not a dead Galilean fanatic. |
| Edited by - skeptic griggsy on 03/17/2008 07:09:21 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2008 : 09:24:59 [Permalink]
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filthy wrote:| Let us replace the glass in our own house with something bulletproof before we chuck too many arrogance stones at even the most deserving of targets. |
Here here!
I gotta say, I was pretty disappointed with the OP on this thread. Given the title, I was hoping for a link to some news or study or at least more original commentary. But instead it was just another rant assuming the motivations of religious people in general. Timothwc wrote: Most religious types would submit that they answer to no-one, except their god. Some of you should already see the problem: the definition of god is hotly disputed, even WITHIN religions. This allows people to project what they think god is like (usually what they're like) into the god concept, the same way people project their presidential ideals onto Barack Obama.
So when people say they only answer to god, what they really mean is that they only answer to themselves, allowing themselves to be as egotistical as possible under false religious motives. This is also why fundamentalists are so well-versed in their pet theology, yet lack basic human compassion and goodwill |
Most Christian religious people would probably say they want to submit to the will of God but fall short of that mark much of the time (hence the whole "We are all sinners..." line). Most conservative Christian and Muslim women would admit to also submitting to their husbands or fathers. We know from stats that in fact most fundamentalists are not well-versed in their own claimed theology. Also, most of them do have basic human compassion and a sense of good will - as much as any other group. I'm not saying that Timothwc's nasty characterizations aren't true of many religious people. But it isn't true of all (edited to add: or even most, as he suggests), and the OP mostly stands as representative of non-religious arrogance.
And arrogance is a sign of insecurity. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 03/17/2008 09:27:24 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2008 : 13:31:40 [Permalink]
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Intelligence can often be misperceived as arrogance. Ignoramuses often confuse being corrected with being belittled. While I see many religious people who are inflexible and rigid in their thinking, I see few parallels among critical thinkers, who by definition are willing to question their assumptions. "Arrogance" and "elitism" are charges most often leveled against scientists. But science is meritocratic, so its "elitism" is actually one of its strengths. The certitude of religion, on the other hand, is the kind born from contemptible stupidity and defended only by the vilest of the intellectually bankrupt apologists .
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 03/17/2008 13:32:35 |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2008 : 21:22:06 [Permalink]
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Would this count as arrogance?
I am honored that so many non-Christians frequent this site, but if you don't write God or Jesus with capital letters, your comment will be automatically deleted.
Thank you for your understanding. |
If Comfort didn't continually slam atheists on his blog and in his other writings, I'd say that it isn't.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
| Edited by - the_ignored on 03/18/2008 12:15:02 |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
 Posted - 03/18/2008 : 00:25:13 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
Would this count as arrogance?I am honored that so many non-Christians frequent this site, but if you don#8217;t write God or Jesus with capital letters, your comment will be automatically deleted.
Thank you for your understanding. |
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Not really. Its his blog, its his rules. |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2008 : 08:43:30 [Permalink]
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Holy shit. Guess what Ray's response is:
| Matt...I didn't do this for me or for God. I did it for you and for your atheist friends. Every time you write the name of God or Jesus, having to capitalize it will remind you that He is infinitely your Superior, and that you will bow the knee before Him one day, whether you believe in Him or not. My earnest prayer is that you bow now, while He offers mercy, rather than in judgment. |
I'm not even sure how to categorize this. |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2008 : 10:01:49 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by the_ignored
I'm not even sure how to categorize this. |
That was arrogance.
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It's also dishonest. Ray is power-tripping on his blog because he can. These little hurtles he makes atheists leap have absolutely nothing to do with god.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2008 : 12:01:19 [Permalink]
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Yeah, well, I've kind of gotten around that little rule of his...
Right. You are always going on and on and on and on about how your deity is our superior, and how we atheists are just in denial of his existence and whatnot.
And we're to believe that we need further reminding that you believe that your deity is superior to us? You only preach that 24/7.
By the way, "superior" is not a proper noun. |
It should be easy to guess how.
Booyah. Time for the No True Scotsman Fallacy!
I was going to set them up but "dale" comes along two comments later and ruins the surprise.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
| Edited by - the_ignored on 03/18/2008 12:14:35 |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2008 : 12:23:00 [Permalink]
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| Strange, Hitler is ALSO capitalised! |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 03/18/2008 : 13:20:59 [Permalink]
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Oh, this is priceless! | Nator . . . please study your history. It was the Roman Catholic church (not the Christian Church) that arrested Galileo. I have spoken to hundreds of Roman Catholics, and when you ask them “Are you a Christian?” most say, “No. I'm a Roman Catholic.” They know the difference. One is steeped in tradition, and the other adheres to the Bible. And the Catholic church didn't get their information “from the Bible” (it was a banned Book). |
Sooo, Catholics are not Christians, hmm? Y'could'a fooled me along with virtually every Catholic on the planet.
The Bible was indeed a banned book, but only for the laity. It was thought that peasants shouldn't be allowed to read it because that might dilute Church influence. As I recall, Protestantism and the Gutenberg press put that one to rest, and today Christianity is all one, big, happy cult divided into various sects despising each other, some more despicable than others. | “Are you a Christian?” most say, “No. I'm a Roman Catholic.” |
Anecdotal bullshit unworthy of consideration.
Why are you guys bothering with this idiot? Oh, wait, 'cause it's fun, huh?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2008 : 13:54:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
alleyes said:
| I have frequently come across scientists making leaps of faith which they then hang on to with just as much arrogance as people with unproven religious beliefs. |
Name one. |
Hoyle? Perhaps that's being unfair to him, but his hostility to Big Bang cosmology was a bit much? At least, that's my understanding from what I've read.
I also get the sense (though I'm hardly on the "inside" in such discussions) that there's a lot of this sort of tension among the string theory/not-string theory crowds. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2008 : 14:33:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Hoyle? Perhaps that's being unfair to him, but his hostility to Big Bang cosmology was a bit much? At least, that's my understanding from what I've read. |
Hoyle also had problems with the theory of evolution. Let's not forget that we have him to thank for that insipid (and inaccurate) "tornado in a junkyard" analogy.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2008 : 14:53:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Oh, this is priceless! | Nator . . . please study your history. It was the Roman Catholic church (not the Christian Church) that arrested Galileo. I have spoken to hundreds of Roman Catholics, and when you ask them “Are you a Christian?” most say, “No. I'm a Roman Catholic.” They know the difference. One is steeped in tradition, and the other adheres to the Bible. And the Catholic church didn't get their information “from the Bible” (it was a banned Book). |
Sooo, Catholics are not Christians, hmm? Y'could'a fooled me along with virtually every Catholic on the planet. |
You know, Comfort's absurd claim that Catholic's aren't "true Christians" made me think of an analogy.
Imagine that a man named Gino opens a pizzeria with a few friends. After a while, business grows and it becomes a hugely successful chain. Gino eventually passes on, but his family and friends maintain the restaurants and continue to run things in the manner they believe Gino would have wanted. They continuously share stories of his entrepreneurial skills and culinary artistry and basically keep Gino's memory alive. Over time, Gino's little pizzeria evolves, but the core philosophy of fresh ingredients, clean dining rooms, and excellent customer service continue to be maintained and stressed to the same degree.
Now imagine another group opens up a restaurant in another country called "Gino's pizzeria." These people never knew Gino, never met his friends or family, and don't even speak the same language that Gino did. But they managed to get their hands on an early menu of Gino's pizzeria which was translated into their native tongue. On the basis of this single antiquated document, they claim that they alone are the "true" followers of the restaurant chain Gino began. They even go so far as to proclaim that the other, original restaurants are frauds.
Would arrogant even begin to describe the hubris necessary to excuse such a blatantly dishonest misappropriation?
I have no love for the Catholic church, but how Comfort and his band of ignorant cultists can believe for even a second that they hold any claim to being "the true church" simply beggars the imagination.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 03/18/2008 14:53:58 |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2008 : 01:14:44 [Permalink]
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It's the same way that the Catholics have said in the past that they are the only true church. Didn't somebody in their church get criticized for saying that protestants aren't "real" christians recently?
Anyhow, here's another example of Ray's arrogance:
| And keep in mind, those who post comments are only a fraction of those that read the blog. There are other people out there who are unsaved and are weighing up what is being said. I look on this ministry as I do open air preaching. The louder and dumber the heckler gets, the better. We have common sense on our side, and they make the contrast very evident. Thanks for staying with us. Keep praying for these folks. |
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Why religious people are so arrogant
