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Jan
New Member
USA
5 Posts |
 Posted - 03/20/2008 : 17:39:13 [Permalink]
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get up off your ass actually do something! Geeze, there is something less than the internet. For crying out loud it's spring! Quit dying and find
Originally posted by HalfMooner
It's called Oklahoma's "Religious Viewpoints Antidiscrimination Act." Actually, as I see it, it would effectively destroy public education in Oklahoma.
You can fetch the bill (in .RTF format) here.
We've talked about this before, but I wanted to dissect the bill itself in a little detail.
I hope someone here with legal or legislative experience will look at this bill and comment. Also, other layman's opinions are welcome. These kinds of things are difficult for a common person to figure out, and I believe that in this case this bill, oddly identical to one that's already passed in Texas, and to others being introduced across the US, is intended to be difficult to figure out. (It smells as though someone like the Discovery Institute's attorneys wrote this thing. If someone knows for sure, please comment.)
Here's my quick, layman's analysis.
At the end of Page 14, the bill declares a state of emergency to exist:| It being immediately necessary for the preservation of the public peace, health and safety, an emergency is hereby declared to exist, by reason whereof this act shall take effect and be in full force from and after its passage and approval. |
This seems to be simply a legal fiction used to put the bill, if passed as law, into force at once.
Most of the 14-page bill simply outlines rules that would probably change nothing, dealing with how students may hold voluntary, "meet at the flagpole" religious meetings, and may introduce religious themes in speeches. Many pages are given over to such established religious freedoms that were affirmed by courts long ago (often with the help of the ACLU).
Then there is this, on Page 4: | Students may express their beliefs about religion in homework, artwork, and other written and oral assignments free from discrimination based on the religious content of their submissions. Homework and classroom assignments shall be judged by ordinary academic standards of substance and relevance and against other legitimate pedagogical concerns identified by the school district. Students shall not be penalized or rewarded on account of the religious content of their work. |
Now, that doesn't look so bad, at first glance. After all, there is that "Homework and classroom assignments shall be judged by ordinary academic standards of substance and relevance..." phrase, which makes it sound as though nothing is really changing.
But the sentence continues with this phrase: "... and against other legitimate pedagogical concerns identified by the school district." "Other legitimate pedagogical concerns"? Other than "substance" and "relevance"? "As identified by the school district"? So these "other concerns" could be anything the local yokel school district politicians dream up. Could they be, I don't know, Biblical, even specifically Christian, in nature? And these concerns could have equality with substance and relevance?
The other part of the bill where the same kind of language is used is on Pages 12 and 13: | Students may express their beliefs about religion in homework, artwork, and other written and oral assignments free from discrimination based on the religious content of the submission by the student. Homework and classroom work shall be judged by ordinary academic standards of substance and relevance and against other legitimate pedagogical concerns identified by the school. Students shall not be penalized or rewarded on account of religious content. If the assignment given by a teacher involves writing a poem, the work of a student who submits a poem in the form of a prayer (for example, a psalm) should be judged on the basis of academic standards, including literary quality, and not penalized or rewarded on account of its religious content. |
This is much the same as Page 4.
My conclusion is that a student writing a biology paper on evolution could submit an exposition of the book of Genesis, and say nothing at all about evolution. A teacher cannot deduct "points" for such purely religious content. Also, [i]if the school district has a policy that says such Biblical "research" falls under the aegis of their "other legitimate pedagogical concerns," then the biology teacher must give "points" for the work based upon its "quality" as a scholarly religious apology.
Likewise, an English assignment about Shakespeare's Macbeth could receive a passing or better grade, even if the whole paper only deals with Exodus -- so long as it meets the school district's "other legitimate pedagogical concerns" test.
I'm admittedly way over my head with subjects like this. Any other opinions? Bueller?
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2008 : 18:25:46 [Permalink]
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Welcome to SFN. Jan. I'm not dying. At least, not to my knowledge.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2008 : 19:50:54 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Welcome to SFN. Jan. I'm not dying. At least, not to my knowledge.
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Oh come now - this is Human Condition 101. We're all dying from the moment we're conceived. It's just a matter of knowing if it's imminent and by what means. |
-Chaloobi
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2008 : 20:25:25 [Permalink]
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Dude:
You are truly deranged. This law is obviously meant to place religion squarely into public school classrooms.
You are smoking way to much pot if you think it will ever be used for any other purpose. |
I think that was maybe harsh; though I do agree that it is obvious that the bill's intention is to place religion into school. Escpecially when one looks at who sponsored it, and well, what the name of the bill is.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
| Edited by - the_ignored on 03/20/2008 20:26:20 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2008 : 21:20:11 [Permalink]
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You are truly deranged. This law is obviously meant to place religion squarely into public school classrooms.
You are smoking way to much pot if you think it will ever be used for any other purpose. |
You know, Dude, your blinding, burning hatred for me is getting old. Read my fucking posts. I said that it looks like it was phrased in a manner to get past the courts but would be used in a manner that is un-Constitutional. I never denied that the law was intended to get around church-state separation. Laws get used for purposes not what they were originally intended for all the time. There is nothing deranged about my thoughts about the language in the bill.
Sorry if I like to have challenging conversations and play devil's advocate rather than sitting around in a little rationalist circle jerk all the time. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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A layman's look at the OK bill to destroy schools
