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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2008 : 13:09:49 [Permalink]
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Not to mention the gay pride; which is a really 'in your face' event.
Yeah; it is not like there was a unified strategy serving a 'homosexual agenda'.
But; I think that, homosexuals being considered harmless (either because of stereotypical caricature in the media or through people meeting real homosexuals and discovering that they are real people with no nefarious agenda) is what ultimately lead to their wider acceptance.
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Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
 Posted - 11/08/2008 : 13:15:37 [Permalink]
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I do think that most of the progress was achieved not by antagonizing the heterosexuals but by leaving their live and illustrating that homosexuals are decent individuals which are, really, not all that different from the rest of the population...
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Except many people consider the mere exposure to gay people to be "antagonistic." The most common refrain heard from bigots is "I don't care what people do in their own bedrooms, but why do I have to be subjected to seeing gay people all the time?" They'd much prefer it if the homosexuals hid indoors and stopped marching proudly in public parades or interacting as normal characters on sitcoms. That's part of the nefarious Gay Agenda, don't you know, to promote homosexuality as normal and acceptable. And while bigots would all gays to sit down and shut up, the homosexual rights movement has gained traction because they refuse to do so. Trying to appease those who hate you accomplishes nothing. Gays found success only after they started to openly identify as homosexual and demand to be treated with respect. |
True; but I think that, more and more, these people are considered by the general public as paranoid bigoted extremists; not to be considered too seriously and, certainly, not to be listened to. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2008 : 13:19:42 [Permalink]
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| Atheists think that theists are wrong about their answer to perhaps the biggest philosophical question. Regardless of whether the average atheist wants theists to "deconvert" or not, the very idea of atheism itself is hugely confrontational, and many theists find it insulting in principle. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2008 : 13:45:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Atheists think that theists are wrong about their answer to perhaps the biggest philosophical question. Regardless of whether the average atheist wants theists to "deconvert" or not, the very idea of atheism itself is hugely confrontational, and many theists find it insulting in principle.
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That's true. And that is why I think we should focus on keeping science free from religious considerations, and do our best to beat back the religious lunatics who strive for a theocratic government.
I don't envision religion going away anytime soon. As a matter of practicality, I see our fight as mostly political in nature. All of the rest is just a sideshow that will have little effect on how atheists are perceived by people of faith. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2008 : 13:48:55 [Permalink]
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But then; Jews and Muslims also think that Christian are mistaken on a very similar question, and these alternatives are much better accepted...
Ok, while I find this discussion really interesting, we are getting quite a bit away from Ben Stein's enteric discharge. So I used my might internet powers (I was bitten by a radioactive Al Gore) and created this thread where to continue this discussion...
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Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2008 : 16:55:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
But then; Jews and Muslims also think that Christian are mistaken on a very similar question, and these alternatives are much better accepted...
Ok, while I find this discussion really interesting, we are getting quite a bit away from Ben Stein's enteric discharge. So I used my might internet powers (I was bitten by a radioactive Al Gore) and created this thread where to continue this discussion...
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Mm, I can only say from my experience; and coming from a tremendously religious and tremendously laid back country, what I experience is: people don't mind so much what you believe in, as long as you believe in something. That you might not, to them, is unthinkable, and worthy of pity.
Methinks it's a bit of a gut reaction. In the end of the day, being gay affects nobody but the parties involved. The mere possibility that an atheist is right and there is no divine being to coddle and help and lead them into righteousness/success/what have you... well, I see many people think of it as utterly threatening and, to an extent, understand how it could be. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed! ...Part 2
