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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 05/11/2008 : 06:10:36
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... a remarkable example of transitional evolution or further evidence of God's crack habit?
The Platypus genome has been deciphered and it is showing that these monotremes are more amazing than even I had thought. PZ has the story:
"Finals week is upon me, and I should be working on piles of paper work right now, but I need a break … and I have to vent some frustration with the popular press coverage of an important scientific event this week, the publication of a draft of the platypus genome. Over and over again, the newspaper lead is that the platypus is "weird" or "odd" or worse, they imply that the animal is a chimera — "the egg-laying critter is a genetic potpourri — part bird, part reptile and part lactating mammal". No, no, no, a thousand times no; this is the wrong message. The platypus is not part bird, as birds are an independent and (directly) unrelated lineage; you can say it is part reptile, but that is because it is a member of a great reptilian clade that includes prototherians, marsupials, birds, lizards and snakes, dinosaurs, and us eutherian mammals. We can say with equal justification that we are part reptile, too. What's interesting about the platypus is that it belongs to a lineage that separated from ours approximately 166 million years ago, deep in the Mesozoic, and it has independently lost different elements of our last common ancestor, and by comparing bits, we can get a clearer picture of what the Jurassic mammals were like, and what we contemporary mammals have gained and lost genetically over the course of evolution.
We can see that the journalistic convention of emphasizing the platypus as an odd duck of a composite creature is missing the whole point if we just look at the title of the paper: "Genome analysis of the platypus reveals unique signatures of evolution." This is work that is describing the evidence for evolution in a comparative analysis of the genomes of multiple organisms, with emphasis on the newly revealed data from the platypus.
Let's start with the first figure from the paper, a cladogram illustrating the sequence of appearance of derived traits in the relevant lineages examined in this work. This is a fairly conventional picture of our evolutionary history, and I have to emphasize that this paper reinforces the evolutionary explanation for the illustrated relationships."
Unable to leave well enough alone, the wind-tunnels at AiG have some remarks on the matter: It's the moment we've all been waiting for: the mapping of the genome of the funny, furry duck-billed platypus.
It is interesting to take a closer look at one of God's strangest creatures, the duck-billed platypus, known for its odd combination of features. What isn't so thrilling is to read the many evolutionary interpretations of the platypus genome!
The genome was published in the journal Nature by a group of more than 100 scientists from the U.S., U.K., and Australia. The platypus was chosen because of its unusual features—a duck bill, mole eyes, lizard eggs, and beaver tail—Chris Ponting of the University of Oxford's MRC Functional Genetics Unit half joked. Unsurprisingly, this reflects evolutionists' beliefs that platypuses are, in a way, at an evolutionary “crossroads” between mammal and reptile.
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It's the second article down and about as good a read as you might expect. 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2008 : 08:11:47 [Permalink]
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Aint evolution grand? Nice blog by Myers. One-hundred and sixty million years since the split tells the real story. And I love the point PZ makes that the platypus is no more strange than we are, evolutionarily speaking.PZ Myers:
Every organism is going to be a mix of conserved, primitive characters and evolutionary novelties — a mouse is just as "weird" as a platypus from an evolutionary perspective, since each is the product of processes that promote divergence from a common ancestor, and each are equidistant from that ancestor. It's just that we primates share more derived characters with a mouse than with a platypus, because we are more closely related, and the mix of characters in the mouse are more familiar to us. |
Coincidentally, and to drive home that point, in a way, see my Evil Pick for this week when the weekly skeptic summary is published tonight. I would provide a link, but it isn't up yet.
On another note filthy, I throughly enjoyed the Velma Barfield story in your signature. As evil as they may be, serial killers are incredibly interesting. Michelle loves abnormal psychology, and serial killers certainly fit that description. I can't wait to turn her on to the story. (Of course, there is a good chance she already knows about her. Every time I bring one of these cases up, she has already read about it. Maybe this time I can surprise her.)
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 05/11/2008 : 11:48:37 [Permalink]
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I remember the Barfield tragedy quite well, as I had moved back south, to NC, some few months before. The controversy surrounding her was extended and bitter. Hope Michelle finds Velma at least as fascinating as I.
Evolution is indeed amazing and PZ is damned good at the study of it. Pharyngula should be a regular stop for anyone interested.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2008 : 12:16:36 [Permalink]
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Post moved to Politics
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| Edited by - bngbuck on 05/11/2008 15:14:09 |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2008 : 12:26:30 [Permalink]
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Post moved to Politics
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| Edited by - bngbuck on 05/11/2008 15:21:48 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 05/11/2008 : 12:54:30 [Permalink]
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*Ahem*
Noboby loves hack & stab & cut & shoot & the selective distribution of arsenic more than I, but at the moment, the Platypus genome is of prime interest. Did you know that the first specimen sent back to England (stuffed, of course) was first thought to be a stitched-together hoax? And it wasn't even April 1st.
I wonder if they taste like chicken -- seems likely.....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2008 : 14:05:40 [Permalink]
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Kil.....
Why don't you move my comments here over to OY's thread in Politics, so that I don't fuck up Filthy's excellent thread on Ornithorhynchus anatinus? Every monotreme (including the impossibly cute baby echidna he was cuddling a ways back,) must have it's day!
I would do it, but I don't have the slightest idea how to, after the fact of posting here! |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2008 : 14:58:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Kil.....
Why don't you move my comments here over to OY's thread in Politics, so that I don't fuck up Filthy's excellent thread on Ornithorhynchus anatinus? Every monotreme (including the impossibly cute baby echidna he was cuddling a ways back,) must have it's day!
I would do it, but I don't have the slightest idea how to, after the fact of posting here!
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Here's the way I do it: cut the text, then delete the entire post. Set up a new post at wherever and paste your text into it.
Easier'n fallin' off a log.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2008 : 15:23:09 [Permalink]
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Filthy.....
Done! Thanks for the tip! |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2008 : 15:27:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Filthy.....
Done! Thanks for the tip!
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d'Nada....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2008 : 05:33:03 [Permalink]
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Here's a little on the Platypusian (is that a word?) fossil record. | The oldest fossil monotremes come from the Lightning Ridge opal fields of New South Wales, Australia. An opalized lower jaw fragment of Steropodon galmani more than 100 million years old (middle Albian, Cretaceous) was found containing three distinctive teeth remarkably similar to those of the juvenile platypus. From the size of the jaw, it is estimated that the living animal was about the size of a cat, making it one of the largest Mesozoic mammals known. This find (Archer et al. 1985) marked the first known Australian mammal from the Mesozoic. A second jaw, described as Kollikodon ritchiei, was found in 1995 from deposits of similar age, suggesting that monotremes had already diversified by the Early Cretaceous. |
So just how old are these guys, anyway? Did they have distinct ancestors, that is, obviously platypus-like, in the Late or Middle Jurassic Period? And which Synapsid was their direct ancestor from the Permian?
I love evolution. As soon as you answer one question, three more pop up, each more fascinating than the last.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2008 : 12:24:42 [Permalink]
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Filthy.....
If it looks like a duck,.....but the fucking thing is otherwise incomprehensible, then it's probably a Filthy Fave!
You're completely nuts, Filth! |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2008 : 13:22:37 [Permalink]
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Don't really have a favorite but this one comes close.
What a pity that Dunkleosteous is extinct. What a blessing that it is!
But our little Platypus never saw old Dunk, a creature of the Devonian and arguably the most fercious marine predator that ever lived. In fact, there was a notable dearth of mammals in those times, prompting demands (from me, mainly) for the YECs to produce the Devonian Bunny and support their 6,000 year cliaaims. Alas, that legendary lagomorph yet languishes in lonely Absentia. Which is just south of Atlantis on Rt 9.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2008 : 10:07:01 [Permalink]
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Filthy.....
| Alas, that Legendary Lagomorph yet Languishes in Lonely Absentia. Which is just south of Atlantis on Rt 9. |
You're a quick study, Filth! Watch out, tho'! Hummer will be on your ass any moment now if you keep up this alliteration thing! As he points out, it's so fucking juvenile! |
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The patchwork Platypus......
