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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 05/26/2008 : 13:17:25
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This fossil, found in TX, languished in a museum drawer for a decade before it was closely examined. This is not uncommon but in this case, the examination revealed a rather incredible animal. It had the head of a frog, pretty much, and the rest of it was a salamander. Pretty much. And as it cane from Permian Period strata, it sets the evolution of frogs back a notch or two and adds a little information to the overall evolution of amphibians.
Unable to leave well enough alone, Answers in Gibberish Genesis has a few thoughts on this matter as well as a few others, most of it making such little sense that I'll not bother to expert it....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Edited by - filthy on 05/26/2008 13:31:57
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2008 : 14:15:13 [Permalink]
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That is an interesting fossil, thanks filthy!
As for AiG... they aren't even good for a laugh on this one! Just pathetic.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2008 : 14:41:06 [Permalink]
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"Answers in Gibberish" Ha Ha! I have to remember that name.
"Gerobatrachus hottoni" i.e. "Frogamander" - an interesting ceature, the "artiste" in me wants to see an "artist's reconstruction".
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Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2008 : 15:46:18 [Permalink]
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I giggled at this part from AiGib:The creature is said to fit a “noted gap” in the amphibian fossil record—one of those gaps the media never reports on until it's filled! Anderson judges that the animal would have looked like a stubby-tailed salamander with froglike ears and that it “pretty convincingly settles the question [that the] frog and salamander shared origins from the same fossil group.”
[My bolding.] |
Notice that the writer is upset that the popular media (Creos don't actually read scientific literature) didn't notify the Creationists about the frog-salamander evolutionary "gap" in time for them to spend a few decades crowing about the lack of evidence.
How unfair of the media to leave them unaware of a "gap" until it's too late to take advantage of it! Won't some charitable popular science writer please send a comprehensive list to these Bible-thumpers, so they can tell us, in a timely fashion, how stupid science is?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 05/26/2008 15:49:50 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2008 : 17:50:00 [Permalink]
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I too, am looking forward to the artist's conception. It's a pity that the fossil isn't fully articulated; that would give more to work with.
As for AiG's missing it, tough titty! Anyone with no more than a passing interest in amphibian/reptile evolution knew this one was out there somewhere. The real suprise, to me, anyway, is the age of it. I'd have thought early Triassic, perhaps later.
I'm hoping that related specimens will soon be found, especally from the around Devonian Period. Then AiG, et el. can loudly proclaim that science has produced yet more gaps in the theory, making themselves look like grade-school dunces and giving us a good laugh in the bargain.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 00:02:12 [Permalink]
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I have attempted an artistic reconstruction:
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 00:53:03 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
I have attempted an artistic reconstruction |
I think you're on to something there!
I suggest however that the facial area, with those large eye sockets, might imply a face similar to this:
P.S. The bow tie might also indicate some form of primitive intelligence.
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 05:28:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
I have attempted an artistic reconstruction:
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 That's great. I think Chip's is closer though. |
-Chaloobi
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 08:44:05 [Permalink]
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Here's what's amazing from the AiG people:| it is possible that... frogs and salamanders descended from the same amphibian kind—that is, selective pressures gradually exploited the genetic variation in an original amphibian kind, resulting in the two modern groupings |
Uh, isn't this called evolution? Leave out the "kind" reference, which is just standard Creationist-speak to invoke Genesis terminology (which reminds me of one of my favorite Ontion articles), and note what they're saying-- you have an animal, and over time, it is possible that it evolved into to different species. Do they think that just by using "kind" and "groupings" that what they are proposing is not a description of evolution? |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2008 : 12:05:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Here's what's amazing from the AiG people:| it is possible that... frogs and salamanders descended from the same amphibian kind—that is, selective pressures gradually exploited the genetic variation in an original amphibian kind, resulting in the two modern groupings |
Uh, isn't this called evolution? Leave out the "kind" reference, which is just standard Creationist-speak to invoke Genesis terminology (which reminds me of one of my favorite Ontion articles), and note what they're saying-- you have an animal, and over time, it is possible that it evolved into to different species. Do they think that just by using "kind" and "groupings" that what they are proposing is not a description of evolution?
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Heh, now you're getting into deep & murkey waters. It all depends on what definition of "Kind" you're using. "Kind" is a very elastic term that in apologetics can, and is, used used to excellent effect. For example, "Frog Kind" and "Salamander Kind." If this becomes a potential embarressment, which it evidently has, one merely shuffles the goal posts along with: "Amphibian Kind."
And thus, the faithful are reassured and their donations continue to flow like effluent down the sewage system. Never forget: these guys are primarily politicians, sanctimonious ones, true, but politicians never the less.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Vegeta
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2008 : 20:50:58 [Permalink]
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| Missing link? Looks like a frog with Rickets to me. |
What are you looking at? Haven't you ever seen a pink shirt before?
"I was asked if I would do a similar sketch but focusing on the shortcomings of Islam rather than Christianity. I said, 'No, no I wouldn't. I may be an atheist but I'm not stupid.'" - Steward Lee |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2008 : 23:42:05 [Permalink]
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Filthy and Mooner.....
God, where is Sigourney Weaver when we need her in the worst way?
One of the crew members is going to come up with a bellyache any minute now, explode all over the screen, and you'll have your mini-model for this creature!
By the way, there were lots of saucers flying around during the Devonian Period and there can be no doubt that's where these fuckers came from!
Evolution, hell! It's big green lizards from Andromeda, like I told you guys a long time ago!
H.R. Giger's original design for the Alien, based on his earlier work, Necronom IV |
| Edited by - bngbuck on 05/29/2008 23:48:37 |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2008 : 23:52:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Chippewa
P.S. The bow tie might also indicate some form of primitive intelligence. |
Rana jayus michiganii clearly had a far more advanced vocal apparatus than your Rana flipii.
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Oh yes! But the really amazing thing to me is, aside from those creatures, how did our planet also evolve from an early 2 dimensional somewhat black & white era into a color 2D animated epoch and on into the 3D era of the present? 
P.S. Rana flipii and Rana jayus michiganii - Excellent! |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2008 : 01:57:27 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Chippewa
Originally posted by HalfMooner
I have attempted an artistic reconstruction |
I think you're on to something there!
I suggest however that the facial area, with those large eye sockets, might imply a face similar to this:
P.S. The bow tie might also indicate some form of primitive intelligence.
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I bow to your reconstruction, Chip. It's far more plausible than mine.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2008 : 10:55:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
I bow to your reconstruction, Chip. It's far more plausible than mine. |
Thanks but its actually a reconstruction by Ub Iwerks.
Only the large eye sockets are similar. You got the spine close with Mr. Alien and Dave correctly identified the related species of Rana catesbeiana animatator.
But seriously, (filthy's probably scratching his head wondering "When these clowns going to say something about what I posted?") - Think of them as humorous sidelights and/or symbolic representations. If we were all officials from the churches of Giger and Iwerks, we'd be arguing over our origin dogmas.
The two main points are the interesting fossil of the creature itself and the back-peddling and distortions from Answers in Gibberish.  |
Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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The Frogamander & some really Lame Apologetics
