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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
 Posted - 10/29/2002 : 10:00:38 [Permalink]
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Over the weekend I went to the fine arts museum here in SF to see a show on loan from the British museum. Egypt from the earliest days up to the Romans. Some really spectacular pieces. Why they would send it to a place that is noted for it's earthquakes, I don't know, but I'm glad that they did.
Wandering around the show with a headset on I was taught to read a smattering of hieroglyphic.
The way Egyptian religion worked-to completely over simplify-was that Egypt was a world of order while outside chaos reigned. There was order because the gods willed it. Order was maintained over thousands of years because they had a god-Pharaoh-living with them. Pharaoh was their connection with the gods. The way to the gods was through him.
On every sculpture of every Pharaoh there at the show there was a hieroglyphic that listed his attributes. Every last one had the duck and the disk.
The duck was a standing duck seen in profile, facing either left or right. It means "the son of."
The disk was always in close association with the duck--tucked in the "L" formed by the fouls neck and body. It's the solar disk, the "aten." The name of the god Re (new spelling for Ra), god the father.
Every Pharaoh was the son of god (duck/disk). Every last one of them for the long history of Pharaohnic Egypt.
In Rome after the Caesar/Cleopatra/Mark Anthony thing with the conquest of Egypt and all; Egyptian religion became all the rage. Temples to Isis & Osiris were erected in Roman itself and remained popular until closed in the late 300's by Theodosius the Great. That's around 400 years, not a bad run.
But we don't hear anything about Re in Rome. Nor do we hear anything about Pharaoh, who was fully a man and fully a god. Who was the son of god. Who was the way to the father. Who brought gods blessings to this world. Who insured your eternal life. You would think that the Romans, who had quite the taste for the exotic, would incorporate this Son of Re somewhere in their mythologies, wouldn't you?
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I learned something ... I learned that Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate Halloween. I guess they don't like strangers going up to their door and annoying them.
-Bruce Clark
There's No Toilet Paper...on the Road Less Traveled |
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darwin alogos
SFN Regular
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2002 : 10:19:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
But we don't hear anything about Re in Rome. Nor do we hear anything about Pharaoh, who was fully a man and fully a god. Who was the son of god. Who was the way to the father. Who brought gods blessings to this world. Who insured your eternal life. You would think that the Romans, who had quite the taste for the exotic, would incorporate this Son of Re somewhere in their mythologies, wouldn't you?
Hey I know how they perpetuated it they got this "Jewish" Rabbi named Saul ,when he was leaving Euripedes play The Bachaae ect...,and said "Have we got a deal for you". 
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2002 : 11:50:21 [Permalink]
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How long did you hold on to your belief in Santa Clause? Did you find the toys behind the golf clubs in Dad's closet and decide that the elves had left them there? Did you see Santa in the department store and on the street and decide that he was in several places at the same time? Did you call the other kids in your class names when they told you that there was no Santa? Do you still leave out milk and cookies?
Jesus is a work of fiction. Like so many works of fiction he relies more on the authors experiences than his imagination. Bits and pieces of different religions are cobbled together to form the NT. Poorly cobbled together, it suggests a rushed job.
You have a copy of The Bachaae It retells the Dionysian legend. You have a copy of Acts of the Apostles, it reprints a scene from the play, dialogue and all. You can read it yourself…but you don't. You try to mock me and wind up making yourself look even more foolish. The Bachaae is the toys that are hidden in the back of the closet. Time to grow up Alogos.
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I learned something ... I learned that Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate Halloween. I guess they don't like strangers going up to their door and annoying them.
-Bruce Clark
There's No Toilet Paper...on the Road Less Traveled |
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2002 : 12:08:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
darwin alogos attempted:
Hey I know how they perpetuated it they got this "Jewish" Rabbi named Saul ,when he was leaving Euripedes play The Bachaae ect...,and said "Have we got a deal for you".
Unfortunately, but predictably, that was not a proper sentence.
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2002 : 13:08:27 [Permalink]
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By the bye DA, Paul/Saul didn't write Acts. That was Luke, or maybe his friend Theophilus.
Arguments can be made for an historic "Paul" from some of his letters but the Paul in Acts is a fictional character. Like Washington being historic but the Washington who chopped down the cherry tree is fictional.
One can only guess if the Peter from Acts who murders both Ananias and his wife Sapphira when they don't give him all of their money is historic.
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I learned something ... I learned that Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate Halloween. I guess they don't like strangers going up to their door and annoying them.
-Bruce Clark
There's No Toilet Paper...on the Road Less Traveled
Edited by - slater on 10/29/2002 13:18:14 |
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2002 : 13:13:42 [Permalink]
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With regards to the ossuary, I found the review by Paul Flesher, Director of Religious Studies Program at the University of Wyoming interesting. For example, Dr. Flesher writes: quote:
In what Aramaic dialect is the inscription written, and is that dialect appropriate for first-century Jerusalem? It turns out that although the dialect of the inscription can be made to fit into first-century Jerusalem, it actually fits much better with the Galilean dialect of the late second to sixth century. There are two linguistic indications that suggest the dialect of Jewish Palestinian Aramaic, which was used in texts and inscriptions from Galilee of a century or more later.
- see Does the James' Ossuary really refer to Jesus Christ?
Edited by - ReasonableDoubt on 10/29/2002 13:14:19 |
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Antie
Skeptic Friend
USA
101 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2002 : 16:20:31 [Permalink]
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> The duck was a standing duck seen in profile, facing either left or
> right. It means "the son of."
That hieroglyph is transliterated as "s3." It means "son" in this case, and the "of" is implied.
> Every Pharaoh was the son of god (duck/disk). Every last one of them
> for the long history of Pharaohnic Egypt.
Nope. That started with King Djedefre, the third king of the fourth dynasty.
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/djedefre.htm
"Perhaps his main significance is that he was the first king to adopt the name, "son of Re".
Edited by - Antie on 10/29/2002 16:23:09 |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2002 : 16:50:13 [Permalink]
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Not to be too nit picky- but we are still talking about every Pharaoh from 2528 BCE to 30BCE.
That's two thousand four hundred and ninety eight years worth of "The Son of God" before you even get to Jesus. Since the stance I have taken from the begining about JHC is that he is an amalgamation of previously existing dieties this particular supernatural attribute is well documented as being pre-existing.
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I learned something ... I learned that Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate Halloween. I guess they don't like strangers going up to their door and annoying them.
-Bruce Clark
There's No Toilet Paper...on the Road Less Traveled
Edited by - slater on 10/29/2002 16:50:53 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2002 : 08:50:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
> The duck was a standing duck seen in profile, facing either left or
> right. It means "the son of."
That hieroglyph is transliterated as "s3." It means "son" in this case, and the "of" is implied.
> Every Pharaoh was the son of god (duck/disk). Every last one of them
> for the long history of Pharaohnic Egypt.
Nope. That started with King Djedefre, the third king of the fourth dynasty.
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/djedefre.htm
"Perhaps his main significance is that he was the first king to adopt the name, "son of Re".
Edited by - Antie on 10/29/2002 16:23:09
Then there is the curious reign of Ankhenaten who introduced monotheism the the Egyptian populace in general. It lasted until the "heretic king" died or was killed.
Ra also had several other names such as Re, Aten, and Amon(or Amun)-Ra.
Since this dates from 1352-1336 BCE, it may have given rise to a monotheistic cult which added its death story to Christianity. Since the son of God was most likely killed by priests in the case of Ankhenaten, it is possible that the story of Jesus is partially the story of Ankhenaten.
Cthulu/Asmodeus, when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils. |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2002 : 12:09:47 [Permalink]
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In Sigmund Freud's last major work, Moses and Monotheism he traces Jewish monotheism back to Ankhenaten (he spells it Ikhnaton) A.K.A. Amenhotep IV. And deduces " The first family, the one from which the babe is exposed to danger, is in all comparable cases the fictitious one; the second family, however, by which the hero is adopted and in which the hero is adopted and in which he grows up, is his real one. If we have the courage to accept this statement as a general truth to which the Moses legend also is subject, then we suddenly see our way clear: Moses is an Egyptian-probably of noble origin-whom the myth undertakes to transform into a Jew."
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I learned something ... I learned that Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate Halloween. I guess they don't like strangers going up to their door and annoying them.
-Bruce Clark
There's No Toilet Paper...on the Road Less Traveled |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2002 : 10:23:40 [Permalink]
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Jerusalem post interview with Hershel Shanks:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1035430650013
(begin quote)
News reports say this is the first archeological discovery to corroborate New Testament references to Jesus. Had anyone seriously suggested that Jesus didn't exist?
I suppose there are some crazies who doubted it, but no, not really.
(end quote)
"God-as revealed in his book of edicts and narratives is practically an idiot. He has nothing to say that any sensible person should want to listen to."
-- Johann Most
Edited by - StarMan on 10/31/2002 10:25:45 |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2002 : 10:27:51 [Permalink]
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Consider the source.
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I learned something ... I learned that Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate Halloween. I guess they don't like strangers going up to their door and annoying them.
-Bruce Clark
There's No Toilet Paper...on the Road Less Traveled |
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darwin alogos
SFN Regular
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2002 : 10:27:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
News reports say this is the first archeological discovery to corroborate New Testament references to Jesus. Had anyone seriously suggested that Jesus didn't exist?
I suppose there are some crazies who doubted it, but no, not really.
Actually Slater this is how the REAL WORLD views your cultic reinterpretation of history(for Petes sake Slater you still can't come out denial that G.A.Wells gave up on yourPagan Copycat Jesus),so in realty Slater it is you who needs to:to grow up.
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darwin alogos
SFN Regular
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2002 : 10:35:23 [Permalink]
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RD states like a broken record: quote:
Unfortunately, but predictably, that was not a proper sentence.
 Your poor henpecked wife.
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2002 : 13:35:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
Actually Slater this is how the REAL WORLD views your cultic reinterpretation of history ...
A reinterpretation of a fabrication that relies firmly on faith for validation. So much for reality.
Having followed this thread from the begining DA, you have yet to present a compelling argument to get me to change my mind, much less RD and Slater. The most compelling argument I have seen for a belief in any god is "Credo consolans", but that may just be a reflection of a personal weakness than anything else.
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