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Slater
SFN Regular

USA
1668 Posts

Posted - 07/27/2001 :  14:59:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Slater a Private Message
When I was in New York I would, now and then, go out for drinks with Isaac Asimov. We were not what you would call friends. We knew each other from Mensa and he wanted my help on a couple of projects. Anyway, Asimov told me that it was he who had suggested to Hubbard that he start his own religion when Hubbard was complaining to him about his books not selling.
Asimov, an even bigger Atheist than I am, meant it as a joke.
Some joke.

-------
The brain that was stolen from my laboratory was a criminal brain. Only evil will come from it.
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular

USA
1447 Posts

Posted - 07/27/2001 :  16:53:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Tokyodreamer a Private Message
Here's an interesting email sent in to Robert Carrol of The Skeptic's Dictionary (www.skepdic.com):

quote:
23 Jul 1997
I just read your Skeptic's Dictionary entry on Dianetics with interest. I think I can add a bit to the history of this "science" and "religion."

Dianetics came out before the book you cite; Hubbard introduced it in the May, 1950, issue of Astounding Science Fiction, the earlier version of the magazine now called Analog. He was a popular contributor to Astounding, and I was a fan of his writing.

At the time, I was friendly with the late Theodore Sturgeon, a distinguished science-fiction writer whose work I admired. Ted knew Hubbard fairly well, and told me that at a sci-fi convention the previous year Hubbard had told him and several other writers something like this: "You guys just wait. I've thought up a racket that's going to make me very rich. You'll hear about it in a few months."

Nevertheless, we were intrigued, and Ted and I tried "auditing" each other a few times. We dropped it partly because we didn't think it made much sense and, I have to admit, because Ted was much better at it than I was; he'd have made a good psychotherapist.

As to the Church of Scientology, I remember how that came about, though I'm a bit hazy on the details. The organization was then known as the Hubbard Dianetic Institute, and he had moved the headquarters several times, as it ran into tax and legal troubles of one kind or another. At some point in the 1950s, I believe it was, the Institute was headquartered in Wichita, Kansas, and having a lot of trouble with the state and Federal tax authorities. Then Hubbard had the bright idea of turning the institute into a church, which would be tax exempt! And he got away with it. So far as I know, only Germany refuses to recognize Scientology as a religion, and the "church" is fighting the German government with everything it has.

By the way, Hubbard didn't start by using the term "engram," which of course he borrowed from biochemistry. In the Astounding article that introduced Dianetics, he called them "Norns," after the witches of Norse mythology. When the book was published, his Norns had been transmogrified into engrams.

Thanks for the Skeptic's Dictionary. I love it. It's my belief that the current popularity of every kind of nonsense from acupuncture and astrology to reflexology, homeopathy, naturopathy, therapeutic touch and all the other "holistic" therapies is the result of a breakdown in our educational system some time after World War II. People who have been taught to think aren't susceptible to this kind of stuff.

Keep up the good work.
Al Berger


http://skepdic.com/comments/dianeticcom.html

------------

Ma gavte la nata!
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13477 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2001 :  01:29:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
While on the subject of Scientology, and pertinent to this folder, you might want to read "Evolution, Scientology Style" by Dawn Huxely. It can be found on this site at: http://www.skepticfriends.org/dawnscireview.asp

The Evil Skeptic
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Snake
SFN Addict

USA
2511 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2001 :  20:32:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Snake's Homepage  Send Snake an ICQ Message  Send Snake a Yahoo! Message Send Snake a Private Message
quote:

to piltdown

amen brother!

a fair number of my students are being raised as biblical literalists. i know because they chastize me whenever i comment on the mass extinction 65MM years ago or the big bang. some of these kids are quite bright, so it saddens me that their parents raise them to not think. on the bright side, my honors geometry class will introduce the kids to logic and formal proofs and how arguments are falsified.

comrade billyboy


To:
comrade billyboy.
Wow! I didn't know you were a teacher. I love geometry. One of the few subjects I could get good grades in. I think in shapes(symbols), not words.
You must be a cool person.

VHEMT
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comradebillyboy
Skeptic Friend

USA
188 Posts

Posted - 07/30/2001 :  22:13:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send comradebillyboy a Private Message
quote:

To:
comrade billyboy.
Wow! I didn't know you were a teacher. I love geometry. One of the few subjects I could get good grades in. I think in shapes(symbols), not words.
You must be a cool person.

VHEMT



thanks, i also teach physics. my students, however think i am rather odd because i get so excited about logical proofs. its great, its the only job i've ever had where i can yell, and jump up and down and get excited. the other thing is, i don't bullshit my students about real life stuff. my favorite thing to tell a student when he/she has been slacking is: can you say "would you like fries with that sir?"

teaching is a ball. i just started 4 yrs ago after 20 some yrs in the engineering biz, and much to my amazement, i actually like teenagers.

comrade billyboy
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Zandermann
Skeptic Friend

USA
431 Posts

Posted - 07/30/2001 :  22:32:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Zandermann an AOL message Send Zandermann a Private Message
Teaching teens is so much fun. I've been doing it for more than 15 years now...there's never a dull moment.

And you get to help them learn how to think!

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TFarnon
New Member

USA
17 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2001 :  20:32:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send TFarnon a Private Message
[quote]
I've been seeing a few previews on a PBS series called "Evolution" to be broadcast this fall. Looks like a good'en. All except maybe the last one.
Here's a head's up on the episodes....
-Randy


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/about.html

About the Television Series
Evolution will premiere on PBS September 24-27, 2001 (check local listings). [end quote]

I tried watching the series. It didn't hold my lamentably limited attention. Why? Because it was far too simplistic. I love biology. I dig evolution. I hate yelling at the TV. And I yell at the TV a LOT when details I care about are missing from a program: "What KIND of bacteria? Archaea? Eubacteria? WHAT KIND??? AAAAARGH!!!" That's when the TV gets shut off and I go to bed or go read something more substantial.

Maybe other people found the series to be a good introduction or overview for the non-scientist. Maybe people who can sit still that long liked it.

Bacteria RULE, Hominids drool
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Randy
SFN Regular

USA
1990 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2001 :  11:17:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Randy a Private Message
Whoa! Sorry, TFarnon, your post went right over my head. The series starts near the end of Sept. as you re'd to. Or was there a sneak preview you got a hold of? I've yet to see anything of this series other than the brief PBS ads for the Sept broadcast.

Personally, I'd like to see select Television like PBS, Discovery, maybe TLC, well hell,.....the Networks!, to hammer away with programming about the facts and theories of evolution. To delve into areas the general public doesn't hear about; places where evolution bites them right on the nose each day.

Like clothing industries sizing standards and the changes over the centuries. A lot have been keeping records of measurements over the past several centuries. What I recall reading is of humanity _on average_ is growing taller, slimmer - except us Americans! Glove industries records of the past few hundred years show our modern fingers/hands are getting longer, thinner boned. (Course we have skeletal remains to compare too).

Commercial aircraft designers are changing aircraft passenger egress and seats to facilitate the change in our average heights/widths. A lot of these changes, according to the evolutionary view, are due to our modern life style, more and more mechanized, less and less physical. ( Wonder how our sit-at-the-desk computer butt society will be looking after a few generations? :-)

These and many others are some basic everyday events I feel could be better represented to the public at large, to educate those, - jiggle their brains, with how evolution is alive and happenin' all around them.

For decades, the agri-chem industry labcoats have been in trench warfare against insect evolution. Last year's breakthrough insecticide is next year's has-been product because the resistant minority is now the majority. Same bug, just mutated - evolved, to perpetuate itself. Helps to keep the butter on the labcoat's bread. Year after year, year after year. Same story.

Did I read a while back of the majority of dog breeds didn't even exist 150 years ago? And of our other critters,.....cattle industry, horses -
all selective breeding. This is all manipulation of the natural processes.

What have I left out?........maybe include the infectious disease labcoats and their never-ending battle to combat this years mutated - evolved - viruses. On and on.

Lot's of everyday evolution events going on in our lives.

Guess there will always be a fair percentage of people that will remain mental Neanderthals where evolution is concerned,..due to ignorance or religious bias/dogma/blinders.

-Randy





"Evolution is both fact and theory. Creationism is neither."

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
Groucho Marx.

Edited by - randy on 08/11/2001 11:30:55
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Greg
Skeptic Friend

USA
281 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2001 :  19:03:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Greg an AOL message Send Greg a Private Message
quote:
Did I read a while back of the majority of dog breeds didn't even exist 150 years ago?


Not only that, but it's been shown that all modern breeds of domesticated dogs are evolved from wolves.

Greg.

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bjones
Skeptic Friend

Australia
82 Posts

Posted - 08/25/2001 :  19:15:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bjones a Private Message

quote:
what creationist hate


Me!

Bob

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ljbrs
SFN Regular

USA
842 Posts

Posted - 09/08/2001 :  19:43:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ljbrs a Private Message
quote:
Wow! I didn't know you were a teacher. I love geometry. One of the few subjects I could get good grades in. I think in shapes(symbols), not words


==========

Snake:

I always loved mathematics classes because I could not argue with the instructor.


Slater:

You must be a wonderful teacher!

ljbrs

*Nothing is more damaging to a new truth than an old error.* Goethe
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theweirdirishman
New Member

8 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2001 :  18:34:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send theweirdirishman an AOL message Send theweirdirishman a Private Message
heres something creationists hate:
"so to get us, did adam and eve f*ck or what?"

go up to one with a love crystal and ask them if their carma has been cleansed lately.

Say that you saw god once on a cannabis trip (this one might not sound funny, but i really said it once and this guy got pissed!)

-theweirdirishman

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darwin alogos
SFN Regular

USA
532 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2001 :  15:53:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send darwin alogos a Private Message
quote:

I've been seeing a few previews on a PBS series called "Evolution" to be broadcast this fall. Looks like a good'en. All except maybe the last one.
Here's a head's up on the episodes....
-Randy


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/about.html

About the Television Series
Evolution will premiere on PBS September 24-27, 2001 (check local listings).
Here are brief descriptions of each of the episodes.

Program 1: Darwin's Dangerous Idea (2 hour Premiere)
For 21 years, Charles Darwin kept his theory of evolution secret from all
but a few friends. He confided to one: "It is like confessing to a murder."
His torment resonates in society today - in the challenge his incredibly
powerful idea poses to our understanding of our world and ourselves. We
interweave the drama in key moments of Darwin's life with documentary
sequences of current research, linking past to present and introducing major
concepts of evolutionary theory. We also explore why Darwin's "dangerous
idea" matters perhaps even more today than it did in his own time, and how
it conveys the power of science to explain the past and predict the future
of life on earth.

Program 2: Great Transformations (1 hour)
What caused the incredible diversity of life on earth, and how have complex
life forms, including humans, evolved? Is there direction to evolution? And
is human intelligence inevitable? We focus on evolution's "great
transformations" - among them the development of a standard four-limbed body
plan, the journey from water to land, the return of marine mammals to the
sea, and the emergence of humans. Driven by a combination of opportunism and
a genetic "toolkit," these astounding leaps forward define the arc of
evolution. And they suggest that every living creature on earth today, and
every species that has ever existed, is a variation on a grand genetic
theme - a member of one, and only one, tree of life.

Program 3: Extinction! (1 hour)
Some 99.9 percent of all the species that have ever lived are now extinct.
While cataclysmic events on earth have pruned the tree of life, extinction
also opens the door to diversity, carving out room for new species to emerge
and thrive. This film explores the causes of the five mass extinctions that
have occurred over the life of the planet - and takes us to the sources of
extinctions happening today. In doing so, it confronts a frightening notion:
Are we humans causing the next mass extinction - the sixth in the history of
life on earth? If so, what does evolutionary theory predict for the world we
will leave to our descendants?

Program 4: The Evolutionary Arms Race (1 hour)
"Survival of the fittest." - Raw competition? Or, a level of cooperation
indispensable to life? Evolution tells us that both are important. We
explore our own spiraling arms race with microorganisms, the only entities
that can pose a threat to our existence. We follow the struggles of medical
detectives uncovering the roots of epidemics and trace the alarming spread
of resistance among pathogens that cause disease, like the new virulent
tuberculosis - nicknamed "Ebola with wings." Interactions between species
are among the most powerful evolutionary forces on earth, and understanding
them may be key to our own survival.

Program 5: Why Sex? (1 hour)
In evolutionary terms, sex is more important than life itself - without
progeny, we are evolutionary losers. Sex fuels evolutionary change, by
adding variation to the gene pool and eliminating unsatisfactory traits. We
look at the endless variety of sexual expression and the powerful hold sex
exerts over all living things. And we explore how the need to pass on our
genes has shaped our own bodies, minds, and lives. Some scientists believe
that art, literature, music - in fact all of human culture - may be the
ultimate result of our sexual drives.

Program 6: The Mind's Big Bang (1 hour)
Anatomically modern humans existed more than 100,000 years ago, but with no
art, crude technology, and primitive social interaction. Then 50,000 years
ago, something happened - a creative, technological, and social explosion,
and humans came to dominate the planet. This was a pivot point in our
development, the time when the human mind truly emerged. What made this
moment so different? We examine forces that may have contributed to the
breakthrough, enabling us to prevail over our relatives, the Neanderthals,
who co-existed with us for tens of thousands of years. And we explore where
this power of mind may lead us, as the culture we create overtakes our own
biological development.

Program 7: What About God? (1 hour)
Of all the species on earth, we alone attempt to explain who we are and how
we came to be, through the prisms of both science and religion. How has the
tension between the two played out? Today, the theory of evolution still is
dogged by controversy. This program explores the creationist movement and
its arguments by drawing on real human stories of people struggling to find
a balance between faith and reason. Through the perceptions of theistic
scientists and credible religionists, we underscore the point that science
and religion are compatible, although they play very different roles in
assigning order to the universe and a purpose to life.


"Evolution is both fact and theory. Creationism is neither." - Unknown





Edited by - randy on 07/17/2001 11:36:37



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