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Dr Shari
Skeptic Friend
135 Posts |
 Posted - 12/11/2002 : 12:51:08 [Permalink]
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| There is a thesis that Hell is really knowing that throughout the rest of time you'll have to face the fact that you blew it. God gave the clues and you couldn't solve the puzzle. In the Jewish faith, they believe that Jesus isn't the Messiah because they don't need him yet. (that is a simplfacation but my daughter is Jewish and I read Judism for Idiots or some book and that is how they explained it) I don't think man has ever needed saving from anything other then religion and ignorance from which not all but most evil flows. |
Death: The High Cost of Living
It is easier to get forgiveness then to get permission! |
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Legallee Insane
Skeptic Friend
Canada
126 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2002 : 15:25:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
There are so many different Xian churches that you would be hard-pressed to make a doctrine for them all.
This is something that has always confused me. I fail to understand why there are so many versions of the Xian faith. They all seem to contradict each other and each has its own little claim to being the "true" religion.
quote:
There is a thesis that Hell is really knowing that throughout the rest of time you'll have to face the fact that you blew it.
In response to this, I think a persons hell is whatever he makes it out to be. But that aside I believe a persons hell can only be something in life that he/she considers hell. I most certainly do not believe that when we die we are going to be magically judged and sent to some mythical hell because in all likelyhood no such as heaven or hell exists. |
--"Only the fool says in his heart: There is no god -- The wise says it to the world"
--"I darn you to HECK!" - Catbert
--"Don't worry, we're not laughing at you, we're laughing near you." |
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Kaneda Kuonji
Skeptic Friend
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2002 : 15:32:41 [Permalink]
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At any rate, I prefer not arguing about religion, as a good comparison for arguing over who's Invisible Friend is stronger is the Special Olympics (I leave it to you to figure that out).
I'll only step in if such individuals are making asses of themselves, or if they try to ram their religion down other people's throats, including my own. On a couple of occasions, I have had to restrain myself, as it was all I could do to keep from being arrested for felony assault. |
Rodney Dean, CI Order of the Knights of Jubal
Ivbalis.org
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| Edited by - Kaneda Kuonji on 12/11/2002 15:35:25 |
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Avenel
Skeptic Friend
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2002 : 15:52:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Legallee Insane
This is something that has always confused me. I fail to understand why there are so many versions of the Xian faith. They all seem to contradict each other and each has its own little claim to being the "true" religion.
There are many denominations (something like 1500 Protestant in North America alone) because there are any number of ways in which to interpret the Scriptures. Not only that, but they don't even agree on which writings are scriptural. The Gnostics accepted a number of Gospels rejected by Paulline Christians, the RCC accepts some Hebrew Apocrypha rejected by most Protestant groups, and the Mormons accept several books written by Joe Smith (yes, I know that the question of whether the Mormons are Christian is a whole 'nother can 'o worms, but they call themselves Christian, so I'm taking the Inclusivist position and counting them). Not all divisions will claim to have the only answer (the UU's certainly won't) but many do, especially Fundamentalist, Evangelical, or Pentacostal varieties.
This isn't limited to Christians, of course. Hinduism begat Jainism and Buddhism, Buddhism split into Mahayana and Theravada forms, each of which divided into numerous varieties. Islam has its big divisions of Shiite, Suni, and Sufi, all of which have numerous subdivisions. Judeism has Reform, Conservative, Orthodox, Hassidim, and Lubbavitchers. |
"How many angels can swim on the head of a beer?" - Roger Ramjet |
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Kilted_Warrior
Skeptic Friend
Canada
118 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2002 : 17:36:32 [Permalink]
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From what I've seen, The only parts that each denomination agrees on is:
Jesus=Good
Satan=Bad
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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2002 : 17:57:59 [Permalink]
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I didn't think Unitarian Universalists were necessarily Christians. Do they subscribe as a whole to any doctrine besides a nebulous feeling of spirituality? Here's the website of the UU church in my area. I bring this up because one of the women at the last AU meeting invited me to this UU church after I told her I was an isolated atheist. The whole thing seems more like a fellowship for nascent freethinkers than anything.
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I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery.
-Agent Smith |
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Avenel
Skeptic Friend
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2002 : 18:28:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by PhDreamer
I didn't think Unitarian Universalists were necessarily Christians. Do they subscribe as a whole to any doctrine besides a nebulous feeling of spirituality? ... I bring this up because one of the women at the last AU meeting invited me to this UU church after I told her I was an isolated atheist. The whole thing seems more like a fellowship for nascent freethinkers than anything.
You're right, the current UU's accept individuals from a wide range of faiths. A good description of them can be found here http://www.religioustolerance.org/u-u.htm. Their roots are, however, in the Christian tradition. According to that page, a splinter group moving back toward Christian Theism formed in Virginia. |
"How many angels can swim on the head of a beer?" - Roger Ramjet |
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Dr Shari
Skeptic Friend
135 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2002 : 00:18:09 [Permalink]
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| At any rate for whatever reason Jesus really came back it was a failure. I have read the Bible and it doesn't seem he accomplished anything. People still persicute others for not believing the "TRUTH". If he did die for our sins he failed and it was a useless death. Thank Goodness I am not worried for my soul as I don't remember selling it for anything. If we have one then i still have time to decide what mine is going for. |
Death: The High Cost of Living
It is easier to get forgiveness then to get permission! |
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NubiWan
Skeptic Friend
USA
424 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2002 : 04:01:04 [Permalink]
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Whoa Dr S, are ya saying Jesus "came back?" Where, when, is he still around, or did he split again? ",..Hell is really knowing that throughout the rest of [your] time you'll have to face the fact that you blew it," that's a real kicker. Ya droped some heavies there, Dr S, but suppose ya are in 'heavy' times. From here, it seems you're handeling it as best you can, better than me could for sure. Mankind sure seems to need saving from Mankind, as well. It may be even too late to save "Mankind," depending on your timeframe, seems ya could say that it has a 'terminal condition,' as well. You're facing a situation, that we all will face, but you have a more accurate ETA, and the time to 'prepare.' Most of us will have seconds, an hour or two, or even a few days, but you have perhaps years. Hope you wouldn't mind, if me should kind'a ride along as much as possible, and with luck, find a source of courage within my own self, as you have apparently found. It kind'a seems like, Mankind lacks the ability to contain, for lack of a better term, a 'complete wisdom.' We are real good at using tools, finding better ways of using them, then making even better tools. But socially, not all that much different than when ol' Tut contemplated his own 'passing.' Sort of, "Them what has, gets, and them that don't, does without." But, hell, we're only human.
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2002 : 09:04:18 [Permalink]
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My wife and our friend do the Unitarian thing, occassionally, because the nearest church is an hour and a half away. I, of course, am their escort. Services are very similar to traditional mainstream or liberal christian services, but no specific deity is ever called upon. Most of the sermons concern such things as the evils of war, helping the homeless, being caring, kind and tolerant. Mostly, it's a feel good get together that is real high on passing the word that we should all love each other. Most of the other church goers I've met are the over the hill hippies that still believe, gay and lesbian people, reformed theists, and the young artsy type. It's a very diverse and entertaining crowd down here in New Orleans.
The church embraces people of all belief systems. It's extremely egalitarianand open. Buddhists, pagans, all types of Christians, and any other person is welcome.
By the way, they tell me that agnostics, atheists and skeptics are welcomed. |
"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2002 : 11:45:12 [Permalink]
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By the way, they tell me that agnostics, atheists and skeptics are welcomed.
Yes, I'm sure that our money is as good as anybody elses.
It sounds like a crock |
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I learned something ... I learned that Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate Halloween. I guess they don't like strangers going up to their door and annoying them.
-Bruce Clark
There's No Toilet Paper...on the Road Less Traveled |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2002 : 14:29:33 [Permalink]
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| Slater, I've been to several UU churches now, each of them was as Tim described. There was a collection plate passed around, but there was no pressure to give (in fact, I only saw about 1/4 of the congregation contribute). That was the only time the UU church seemed interested in my money. |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2002 : 15:25:10 [Permalink]
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Did they have a building? Was it on property? Was it maintained? Were there heat, electricity and water? Were there full or part time employees? Did they do business with any vendors, printers, plumbers and such? Did they use office supplies, equiptment and furniture?
This annoying, though only partial list, I've just posted are only some of the things they would need to run their business. None of this stuff comes cheap. So unless they are making their money supplying some goods or service--other than telling people to be nice--I have to say it still sounds like a crock.
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I learned something ... I learned that Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate Halloween. I guess they don't like strangers going up to their door and annoying them.
-Bruce Clark
There's No Toilet Paper...on the Road Less Traveled |
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Legallee Insane
Skeptic Friend
Canada
126 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2002 : 17:53:11 [Permalink]
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The problem I have with the concept of the Unitarian or United type churches is, aside from my not believing in god, that they seem to take the most convenient parts of all the other religions and combine them into something that suits what they want.
It's all such bs, a minor disagreement between a couple of fools years ago and now we have hundreds of denominations, each filled with a different set of fools.
quote:
I know this is off topic....
It kinda reminds me of that episode of the Drew Carey Show where they are court ordered to not associate with each other any more. But in the end the court decides that they can be friends with each other because if they weren't then they would eventually go out and make new friends, and then there would be four big groups of stupid people instead of one small group of stupid people. |
--"Only the fool says in his heart: There is no god -- The wise says it to the world"
--"I darn you to HECK!" - Catbert
--"Don't worry, we're not laughing at you, we're laughing near you." |
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2002 : 14:58:10 [Permalink]
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Actually, I don't see a problem with a bunch of people agreeing to support, and be a part of an organization that allows them to experience the social aspects of religion, while denying dogmatic theism. To be honest, many members of the UU may be a bit eccentric, but by in large they are very interesting and caring people. If they want to get together to search for ways to make the entire world a better place to live, and give each other big hugs at the same time, well...I'm going to step in and grab my hugs, too.
Besides, I need a hug right now. The Saints just lost to the Vikings--Again! I swear, the Saints D couldn't stop the local high school team in a two minute drill!  I need someone to complain to. Everyone here is asleep... |
"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
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