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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
 Posted - 07/18/2003 : 18:05:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanity
Come on, Snake, don't take pages from the fundies's book and reject out of hand things that don't conform to your personal beliefs.
They are not my beliefs they are my observations. My studies, if you will. Therefore valid to me. Freud is a fraud.
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Please read four or five books
Sorry, I can't read. It would take far too long. I don't trust research like that anyway.
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As to the smarts of todays university students, no wonder. They've dumbed down the SAT test twice since I went to school.
Well, on that we can agree.
However, in my cousins case she must have gotten her degree at least 20 years ago.
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Kids are getting into Ivy League schools today with scores that, when converted to the old scores, would have barely gotten them into local state or city colleges - if they could have gotten into any college at all.
Or in the case of my cousin and P. Bush (about the same age) just shows there's no full proof way to keep out morons at any time.
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Studies have shown that there are kids in college - and people with college degrees - who are barely literate. But that doesn't mean every kid at every college is.
My boy is a genius. Not because I say so, the Los Angeles school system does(perhaps that's not saying much either, LOL). But he couldn't get into UCLA, don't know why he tried but that's beside the point. Somethings amiss when schools have to seek out people for 'diversity' and ignore grades and IQ. (BTW, he's also a minority too but not the right one! And since this folder is about gender...I think he might also not be the right gender. ) So sad to consider gender and race before intelligence. Oh well! |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2003 : 18:26:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Isn't that what most women do? LOL
Everyone pretends something to get what they want!
Not everyone, honey doodle...
I sacrificed NOTHING. I am now a widow. I PICKED my late husband. My criteria for marriage (unknown to him) was that my future husband would have no religious beliefs at all and that he liked only GREAT MUSIC (Classical, Baroque, 19th Century program music, 20th Century music, etc.)
I did not need to sacrifice anything. I have wonderful memories.
ljbrs |
"Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve about these suns in a manner similar to the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings inhabit these worlds."
Giordano Bruno
(Burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church Inquisition in 1600) |
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Sanity
New Member
19 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2003 : 02:44:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
They are not my beliefs they are my observations. My studies, if you will. Therefore valid to me. Freud is a fraud.
Sorry, I can't read [four or five books on the subject]. It would take far too long. I don't trust research like that anyway.
The only other times I've seen these comments they've been made by anti-skeptical, anti-evolutionist Christian fundamentalists. Their "studies" of the Bible result in their "observations" that the earth is only 6,000 years old, etc.
You say you don't trust "reseach like that." By your own admission you haven't studied it, so you have no idea what it "is like."
If you haven't read up on this subject, you can't have observed anything about it.
Your assumptions based, by your own admission, on ignorance of the topic, are no more valid than the assumptions of creationists.
Since your statements are the antithesis of skepticism, I must assume you participate here in order to correct what you perceive as the errors of us skeptics. If, on the other hand, you think you are a skeptic, I suggest you read your own post again. No skeptic would proudly proclaim their own ignorance. No skeptic would proudly proclaim distrust for scientific research. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2003 : 17:30:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanity
If you haven't read up on this subject, you can't have observed anything about it.
Look, honey, psychology is not scientific. I've been going to psychologist off and on since my MOTHER started taking me when I was 10 years old, and that's a lot of years ago. I know they don't know what they are talking about. I don't have to read a book to see that.
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Your assumptions based, by your own admission, on ignorance of the topic, are no more valid than the assumptions of creationists.
Since your statements are the antithesis of skepticism, I must assume you participate here in order to correct what you perceive as the errors of us skeptics. If, on the other hand, you think you are a skeptic, I suggest you read your own post again. No skeptic would proudly proclaim their own ignorance.
No one knows everything, of course I'm unaware of many subjects. I am neither proud nor unhappy about that, it only means there's much to know with very little time to learn it all.
What I say is my opinion and I, having grown up in the USA, have learned that I can say what I think. AND I think YOU think too much!
You must be some kind of psychologist. |
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Sanity
New Member
19 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2003 : 07:50:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
Look, honey, psychology is not scientific. I've been going to psychologist off and on since my MOTHER started taking me when I was 10 years old, and that's a lot of years ago. I know they don't know what they are talking about. I don't have to read a book to see that.
One of the first things that I learned from these books is that, as you say, psychology isn't scientific. The books explain how the brain really processes information. From this I was able to figure out that the practices of psychology are frequently not only unsupported by what has been learned about the brain in the last decade, but that, in some cases, what psychologists do is the opposite of what should be done based on how the brain actually works (a few of the books do mention these problems).
Some recent studies have shown that, except for people with medically based mental problems (for which medicine is needed), people do just as well talking to pastors, family, or trusted friends as they do talking to shrinks. Based on experiences in my family, I'd go to a psychologist before I went to a psychiatrist - but, like all doctors, not all will be created equal. Some of them know what they are doing, while others are "painting by numbers," based on assumptions that science has now proven wrong.
After reading several of these books, you will come to understand your own behavior, and perhaps figure our how to fix things that are a problem in your own judgment - with no shrink needed. I said "in your own judgment" because shrinks will say stuff is a problem because they were taught that - even though it may be a plus for you personally (and vice versa).
While a few of these books are written by psychologists, most are written by neuroscientists or neurologists. The last two don't do counciling - they are medical doctors who treat actual medical defects with medicine, physical therapy, and surgery.
Some psychiatrists are up in arms about the recent findings, while others are concerned that they might find themselves out of a job in a decade or so. This is because the findings of recent neuroscience (as described in many current popular books on the brain)shows there is no scientific foundation for most of what they do and how they do it.
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Originally posted by Snake
AND I think YOU think too much!
Guilty as charged.  |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2003 : 20:26:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanity
studies have shown that, except for people with medically based mental problems (for which medicine is needed), people do just as well talking to pastors, family, or trusted friends as they do talking to shrinks.
Yes, that's old news. IMO it's also better in many cases to go to a friend than a doctor. Of course that depends on the type of advice one needs.
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Based on experiences in my family, I'd go to a psychologist before I went to a psychiatrist - but, like all doctors, not all will be created equal. Some of them know what they are doing, while others are "painting by numbers," based on assumptions that science has now proven wrong.
I've been to a variety of both. When I was younger I didn't know there was a difference, other than the medical degree but now I know there are many schools of thought and one should research the person they choose to make sure they have congruent ideals to your own.
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After reading several of these books, you will come to understand your own behavior, and perhaps figure our how to fix things that are a problem
Not to make this personal but I HAVE NO problems, it's the other people in the world who do. I know very well what's in my brain and there's nothing to fix. As it would be difficult to 'fix' each and every other person in the world I sometimes need help learning to be tactful when communicating with others. If people weren't so frustrating they wouldn't give me any problems. (I just have to remember shooting people is not the answer!)
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I said "in your own judgment" because shrinks will say stuff is a problem because they were taught that - even though it may be a plus for you personally (and vice versa).
That's the reason for the research. And why I say they are not worth much, most don't understand anything (individuals), only what's in a book.
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While a few of these books are written by psychologists, most are written by neuroscientists or neurologists. The last two don't do counciling - they are medical doctors who treat actual medical defects with medicine, physical therapy, and surgery.
Yes, I've been to neurologists too (want to see a picture of my brain?). I know it all. Thank you.
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2003 : 04:54:26 [Permalink]
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Posted by Ljbrs quote:
he liked only GREAT MUSIC (Classical, Baroque, 19th Century program music, 20th Century music, etc.)
This is just a curiousity of mine, but by "20th Century music," are you referring to the composers in the European tradition, such as Debussy, Ravel, Strauss, Stravinsky, Tchiakovsky and the like? Or, would you include the American composers like Gershwin, Copeland and Bernstein in the list of "GREAT MUSIC?" And, to go a step further, what of the musical traditions of Blues, Jazz, modern Keltic and Chamber Music? Are these forms less "GREAT" than Classical and Opera?  |
"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
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Sanity
New Member
19 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2003 : 10:12:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
Not to make this personal but I HAVE NO problems, it's the other people in the world who do. I know very well what's in my brain and there's nothing to fix. As it would be difficult to 'fix' each and every other person in the world I sometimes need help learning to be tactful when communicating with others. If people weren't so frustrating they wouldn't give me any problems. (I just have to remember shooting people is not the answer!)
In this case tact isn't the problem. It's my communication skills (one of the problems I need to work on). What I meant to say was "fix anything that you think is a problem." Instead of problem, I perhaps should have said "things you would like to improve or change"(like remembering that shooting people isn't the answer - or, in my case, quit reading that durn book and get to bed at a decent time so I can get up at a decent hour tomorrow).
Another neat tidbit I've picked up has to do with "motor memory." Knowing how this works can improve bowling, batting, pitching, shooting , dancing, etc. THIS is the kind of thing I meant by "problem."
You said (or I thought you said?) that you do or used to go to a psychologist. I know enough not to assume that just because someone has done this I can't assume they actually have emotional or mental problems. I was sort of forced to go to a shrink because the docs couldn't find medical cause for my symptoms, so I had to be a head case, right? Turns out the MRI was misread. When a second reading was done, it turned out that I needed immediate surgery for a severely ruptured disc.
FYI, the shrink diagnosed me as "atypical depression manifesting only in physical symptoms." In other words, my test scores showed I wasn't depressed, he found no sign of depression while talking to me, and I had none of the symptoms of depression. All I had was physical symptoms that couldn't be explained (because the MRI reading said "A-okay").
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Originally posted by Snake
That's the reason for the research. And why I say they are not worth much, most don't understand anything (individuals), only what's in a book.
The research I'm talking about involves attaching electrodes to brains during open scalp brain surgery; disections of brains; MRI's and PET scans showing which part of the brain is active during various actions, and the like. This is "hard" medical research of the same type that is used to study cancer; that originally was used to determine that the blood does circulate and the heart causes it, and how; that was used to determine the functions of the other internal organs; that is used to develop medicines; etc. This is the type of research that is behind every single medical treatment now used. By medical treatment, I mean actual medical treatment - not psychiatry. |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2003 : 03:42:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Posted by Ljbrs
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he liked only GREAT MUSIC (Classical, Baroque, 19th Century program music, 20th Century music, etc.)
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quote:
This is just a curiousity of mine, but by "20th Century music," are you referring to the composers in the European tradition, such as Debussy, Ravel, Strauss, Stravinsky, Tchiakovsky and the like? Or, would you include the American composers like Gershwin, Copeland and Bernstein in the list of "GREAT MUSIC?" And, to go a step further, what of the musical traditions of Blues, Jazz, modern Keltic and Chamber Music? Are these forms less "GREAT" than Classical and Opera?
I like Indian sitar music and other folk music. I love "Gilbert & Sullivan". I like Charles Ives' (et al.) music. I like a lot of 20th Century music. However, if the music does not engage my mind as well as my ears, then I would get pretty bored from more than one hearing. Today's "popular" music seems to be designed to be played at deafening levels for musical morons whose listeners need to pick up a manual for "American Sign Language" for later use.
Incidentally, I do not attempt to control others' tastes in music. I simply do not want it played within my own earshot. I do not force my music upon others. I have several hundred compact disks of a variety of great composers which I play in my car when I am driving by myself.
Then again, some people are easily entertained...
ljbrs  |
"Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve about these suns in a manner similar to the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings inhabit these worlds."
Giordano Bruno
(Burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church Inquisition in 1600) |
| Edited by - ljbrs on 08/02/2003 16:26:06 |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2003 : 17:16:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ljbrs
I like Indian sitar music and other folk music
I have a recording of a song called 'Fire Nights' with Ravi Shankar and Bud Shank. One of my most favorite albums ever. Jazz combined with Indian....Cool
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Incidentally, I do not attempt to control others' tastes in music. I simply do not want it played within my own earshot. I do not force my music upon othersljbrs
How true.
If only some one would take a gun and shoot those morons who BLAST their noise out for everyone to hear. I think about it often but don't want to be the one to go to jail for that.
Just yesterday I called to police AGAIN because of this house down the block who always has that BOOM, BOOM shaking my living room while I'm trying to watch the TV. god damn those ass holes. |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2003 : 18:42:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
How true.
If only some one would take a gun and shoot those morons who BLAST their noise out for everyone to hear. I think about it often but don't want to be the one to go to jail for that.
Just yesterday I called to police AGAIN because of this house down the block who always has that BOOM, BOOM shaking my living room while I'm trying to watch the TV. god damn those ass holes.
I agree with you.
Then again, the people playing loud music ruin their own hearing and need to pick up instructions for "American Sign Language" to get some practice before it is too late to learn it.
I have "The Bose QuietComfort Acoustic Noise Cancelling Headset" which cancells all heavy beats (as well as a Bose Wave Radio/CD system for my own enjoyment - never played so that neighbors complain). I have a CD system in my car and hundreds of CDs (great classics) to play during my hour drive each way, to and from work. I also have a Steinway piano (which is out of tune, because I would never bother the neighbors with my practice of the classics and simply let the poor piano die in peace).
My late husband constructed a huge stero system with huge, heavy magnets, and if the neighbors play their music too loudly, I can give them J.S. Bach's "Toccata and Fugue" cranked all of the way up (for a few seconds) to let them know that they are not going to win with their loud music. I do not keep it LOUD out of consideration for the rest of my neighbors.
I think that if neighbors are CONSIDERATE of each other, they can all get along magnificently.
Incidentally, I was a good and loving wife. My late husband had someone he could COMMUNICATE WITH on a minute-by-minute basis on any topic he wanted to discuss. I also had somebody who could understand me, which was very important for me.
I have great memories...
There are ways of taking care of ignorant neighbors. Of course, one does not want to get shot, so be careful when dealing with "crazies".
ljbrs |
"Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve about these suns in a manner similar to the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings inhabit these worlds."
Giordano Bruno
(Burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church Inquisition in 1600) |
| Edited by - ljbrs on 08/30/2003 18:46:29 |
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Bill Burke
New Member
13 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2003 : 08:08:31 [Permalink]
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| Atomic - What do you expect this self-selected poll to show, other than the gender ratio of only those responding? |
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Deborah
Skeptic Friend
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2003 : 18:43:29 [Permalink]
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Hmmm. Maybe you should indicate in the poll that if they are members they should sign in before taking it. I took it as a guest and then read the posts and signed in to take it as a member. Please delete my guest poll entry at around 5:45pm PST. Thanks.
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2003 : 19:29:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Deborah
Hmmm. Maybe you should indicate in the poll that if they are members they should sign in before taking it. I took it as a guest and then read the posts and signed in to take it as a member. Please delete my guest poll entry at around 5:45pm PST. Thanks.
And what did you vote, if I may be so bold as to ask...?
(This is how bored I am right now... I just had to ask)
(edit:spelling... I'm tired too) |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 11/16/2003 19:32:45 |
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Computer Org
Skeptic Friend
392 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2003 : 08:02:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Tim
Posted by Ljbrs quote:
he liked only GREAT MUSIC (Classical, Baroque, 19th Century program music, 20th Century music, etc.)
This is just a curiousity of mine, but by "20th Century music," are you referring to the composers in the European tradition, such as Debussy, Ravel, Strauss, Stravinsky, Tchiakovsky and the like? Or, would you include the American composers like Gershwin, Copeland and Bernstein in the list of "GREAT MUSIC?" And, to go a step further, what of the musical traditions of Blues, Jazz, modern Keltic and Chamber Music? Are these forms less "GREAT" than Classical and Opera?
"Gershwin, Copeland and Bernstien..." Brrrrrr. "...Jazz...Chamber Music"?? Brrrrrr.
Now Pink Floyd might be called "GREAT [20th Century] MUSIC".
Does anyone REALLY have tastes that run to Gershwin, et alles? |
Do thou amend thy face, and I'll amend my life. --Falstaff |
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