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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
 Posted - 12/27/2002 : 06:56:03
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Scheduled for TV NBC Dateline tonight.......
http://www.msnbc.com/onair/default.asp?program=Dateline%20NBC
FRIDAY, DECEMBER 27 - 8:00 PM ET
Tales of the Tape: at a special time
>snip
Benny Hinn is a world-famous televangelist and faith healer with millions of
followers. He claims he can call on God to heal the sick. But Dateline's
hidden cameras reveal another side of the Hinn ministry, and some former
followers raise troubling questions.
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Go get him! Gr-r-r-r
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"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
 Posted - 12/27/2002 : 07:41:51 [Permalink]
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He was part of an HBO special last year called, I think, Faith Healers. In an interview, I recall he said it's possible some of his "healings" are not divinely caused and that he has no way to tell which ones are "real" and which are not. The show itself had a pleasingly skeptical tone. I only wish such shows were made available to the non-premium-cable subscribers. I think it something of a disappointment that Discovery and The Learning Channel don't take a more active role in the revelation of this theological quackery.
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I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery.
-Agent Smith |
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dimossi
Skeptic Friend
USA
141 Posts |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2002 : 19:11:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by dimossi
quote:
Originally posted by Randy
Scheduled for TV NBC Dateline tonight.......
http://www.msnbc.com/onair/default.asp?program=Dateline%20NBC
Thanks for the heads up Randy. I will be sure to watch this one.
Yeah me too. I always watch 'Dateline' anyway.
Never heard of that guy. (guess he's not as 'world famous' as they think )
Sounds like the show will be just like the other times those kinds of people are exposed.....BUT does it do any good? People make excuses and still go on believing.  |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2002 : 04:51:15 [Permalink]
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Hinn's been flim-flamming for a long time. He's atually got a pretty entertaining act, if you go for that sort of thing.
My toob has lost it's mojo and no longer produces images. While I miss the Simpsons and PBS, I don't consider it worth replacing in these days of short $$$ (and I never had cable, anyway). I hope someone will give us a run-down.
It ought to be good. Benny is as slick as snot on the door knob.
f |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2002 : 11:26:37 [Permalink]
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Found something.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/848195.asp
Ol' Benny looks to be a little slicker than even I thought. Deninatly a cut beneath your every-day vulture. Pretty amazing, really.
(enter 'disgust' smiley)
Edited for the usual reasons.
f |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 12/28/2002 11:31:40 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2002 : 11:29:04 [Permalink]
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It was a good show. They took on confirmed healing's. There were none. They talked about where the money goes. The Hinn organization is very secretive about that, but they have promised things like an orphanage outside of Mexico City. So far, there is only a sign on the side of a building. They say that building is the temporary orphanage until the big, promised one is "finished." The temporary orphanage has no children inside. After years of appealing for money to "finish building" this orphanage, no permits have been pulled to build one and the Mexican authority's said that they haven't even been approached with the idea. On the other hand, Hinn is building a multi million dollar mansion in Malibu. He lives very well. So do those who are at the highest levels of his organization.
There was a money counter from the Hinn organization who told a story of money being taken right off the table by the CEO and put into his pocket after an event. Before it was counted.
There was a story by a security guard who said that Hinn bragged about taking an old lady's last five dollars, after an event.
Both eye witnesses to these events were fired after they complained about what they saw. The Hinn organization has labeled both of them unstable....
Millions upon millions of dollars are taken in. Other evangelists, Billy Graham for example, makes public an accounting of the dollars raised and spent by his organization. Hinn's group keeps their books a secret.
The picture that dateline painted of Hinn and his organization was extremely unflattering. He was portrayed as a flim flam artist of epic proportions.
Now, here is the bad news. This exposé will, in all probability, not put a dent in Hinn's operation. That asshole could probably teach the Mafia a thing or two about raising lots of money, legally and tax free, without having to do messy things like having people whacked.... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2002 : 11:42:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Now, here is the bad news. This exposé will, in all probability, not put a dent in Hinn's operation. That asshole could probably teach the Mafia a thing or two about raising lots of money, legally and tax free, without having to do messy things like having people whacked....
Sad to say. Kil, you're probably right. Many, all too many, people tend to be idiots when it comes to Faith. And what does this say for human evolution? Never mind! I don't wanna know!
Be not so sure that no one will, perhaps have been, get whacked by Hinn's outfit. We're talking large dollars, here.
f |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2002 : 12:24:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Sad to say. Kil, you're probably right. Many, all too many, people tend to be idiots when it comes to Faith. And what does this say for human evolution? Never mind! I don't wanna know!
Yes, just as I said, (above) "People make excuses and still go on believing" before I even saw the show. I don't remember the exact quote but that one lady who they showed watching him on her TV, said just that, when they told her about his fancy living arangements. She said something about, well, he's entitled to have a nice place to stay or he deserves it or whatever.
Again I say, if people want to be idiots, let them. How ignorant do you have to be to see that guy is a sharlaton? If someone is that low on the intelligents scale, IMO, nothing you say to them is going to get through anyway. Those 'watch dog' groups and programs like Dateline, the state DA's, are trying, what more can be done? There are always going to be suckers no mater what. Hinn is only trying to make a living.
Could this be another good reason for tax exemption for religion to be examined? Instead of exposes and fighting to save people from themselves, a simple change of the law would put people like Hinn out of business, at least for that type of work! |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2002 : 12:45:12 [Permalink]
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| So much fot the idea that a belief in god(s) is harmless. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 12/28/2002 12:58:43 |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2002 : 13:15:29 [Permalink]
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Snake, I see you were as bothered by that woman as I was. Have you ever heard such usleless arguments. I kinda liked it when she compared Hinn to the president of NBC. She pointed out that the president of NBC probably has access to a private plane, a big house, and other nice stuff. Here's what she missed: Hinn is a "ministry", so all those bucks he gets are tax free. I doubt that's the case for the president of NBC. Hell, I probably pay more taxes out of my paltry little military retirement check than Hinn has ever paid.
That woman simply has blinders on. She's so entrenched in her belief system that nothing can ever shake her. $12,000/year? What an ass. Think of all the legitimate charities that would jump on that cash with both feet. No because the people running the charity need a nicer car, but because the people they're serving really need it. |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2002 : 18:15:06 [Permalink]
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There was a woman who had cancer on the show. She and her son (who also had cancer) appeared on Hinn's show, and were "healed". The son died mere months later, from cancer of course.
The incredibly sad thing is, this woman, sitting in her house with tubes up her nose, still believed that Hinn healed her cancer. She died shortly after Dateline interviewed her.
Another thing they brought up, that makes this guy even lower than he already is, is that he tells people that if your sickness returns, it's because you doubted God's power. So now, instead of just being incredibly ill with nasty diseases, it's now their fault! |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2002 : 23:41:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Tokyodreamer: Another thing they brought up, that makes this guy even lower than he already is, is that he tells people that if your sickness returns, it's because you doubted God's power. So now, instead of just being incredibly ill with nasty diseases, it's now their fault!
This is a little something that my girlfriend wrote up after seeing last nights show and reading some of today's comments about it. When she posts here, which isn't often, she goes by the name Froydnslp. Anyway, several years ago she infiltrated Operation Rescue for Bacorr, a pro choice activist group. She was through the looking glass. She lived as a fundamentalist Christian for almost two years. In that time, and even as an atheist, she developed an empathy for the very people she was spying on...
quote:
Froydnslp:
I knew a man with Tourette's Syndrome. He jerked uncontrollably and quite regularly until he was "healed" by a faith healer from South Africa. John and his wife were thrilled that the faith healer was coming to his church. This was John's chance. John had to raise his hands for a long time before they took him. The faith healer layed hands on him. John fell to the floor, healed. Days later, I ran into a fellow church member and asked how John was. He told me that John had not been healed. (This man did not believe in faith healings.) He told me to watch John during service. I did. I could see that John was sitting on his hands and fighting as hard as he could when the jerks came. I talked to his wife, not at all mentioning what I'd seen. She stressed how strong John's faith was. Everyone I talked to, in fact, stressed how strong John's faith was. The truth was that this man was working VERY hard to NOT jerk, in order to prove his strong faith and belief in the Lord. I saw him very often after that. It was always the same scene. John, sitting on his hands, working hard not to jerk, and everyone praising the Lord's work. It still makes me sad to think about it.
I think the worst trick of the faith healers is how they prey on someone's faith. If a person isn't healed it's no fault of the healer. It's always the lack of faith in the person in need of healing. How can a person so raised in the church and surrounded by the church, ever let on that he may have lacked the faith to heal? How could he have admitted that to himself? This is a man who had written a book about being a fundie Christian in the late sixties Berkeley. His faith made him who he was. How could he deal with losing his faith? What would he believe in then? Who would he be then?
By the way, the guy who told her that John had not been healed was the head of Operation Rescue in the bay area. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2002 : 00:35:22 [Permalink]
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| Kil, I can't believe you fall for Billy Graham's stichk. The guy is a Fuller Brush salesman gone bad. If anything he takes even more money off the suckers than Hinn and he delivers exactly the same to them....a big nothing. Plus Graham has been coning the White House for decades...where did you think Bush Sr got that business about Atheists not being Americans? That's straight from one of Graham's TV specials. |
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I learned something ... I learned that Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate Halloween. I guess they don't like strangers going up to their door and annoying them.
-Bruce Clark
There's No Toilet Paper...on the Road Less Traveled |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2002 : 10:30:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Kil, I can't believe you fall for Billy Graham's stichk. The guy is a Fuller Brush salesman gone bad. If anything he takes even more money off the suckers than Hinn and he delivers exactly the same to them....a big nothing. Plus Graham has been coning the White House for decades...where did you think Bush Sr got that business about Atheists not being Americans? That's straight from one of Graham's TV specials.
Don't get me wrong here. What was reported is that there is a group that takes voluntary disclosers of income and accounting practices from evangelists. The fact that Graham makes his books available to that group and Hinn doesn't was part of the Nightline report. If Grahams books are doctored, and that certainly might be the case, they are doctored before they are scrutinized. What they said was Graham supplied more info than was required by this group. Hinn's books, on the other hand, are a complete secret. This says nothing about Graham's message. All it says is that Graham has made some attempt at sharing information with this group about where the money is going.
My guess is that Graham can show that a portion of the money he raises really does go to some charities and, (gulp) missions, since that can be verified. Hinn cannot make that claim because his books are a well guarded secret. Hinn tipped his hand with his continued plea for money for a non existent orphanage. Investigative journalism caught him on that one. I doubt that Graham's claims would suffer the same fate. At least, not the one's he is boasting about. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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