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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
 Posted - 08/03/2001 : 23:37:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
What I mean is, as others have said surveilance is becoming a fact of life. So the police don't do it, but suddenly you find that your insurance company knows how fast you are going and jacks your rate up, or your bank that is holding your car title until you have finished paying decides that you are not worth the risk due to your speeding etc.
Worrying about the cops may become small potatoes compared to private surveilance. Be on the lookout for an IPO from the Big Brother Corporation 
 @tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
This may become an issue for the Supreme Court.
There is already high risk insurance for people who do get a lot of tickets or accidents, they are assigned to a company. And they do pay or that is, I suppose we all pay eventually.
VHEMT |
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2001 : 15:34:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
The Franklin quote whilst it may sound good is too simplistic and ignores the fact that safety is a form of liberty.
Safety is a form of Liberty???!!! If I hadn't just discovered Miss Cleo is a fake I'd hire her to send thousands of dead patriots to haunt you.
We have the right (in theory) to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. If during my pursuit of happiness, I endanger your life you are entitled to protect yourself. It's never happened. Conversely, if during your pursuit of happiness, you endanger my liberty, I am also entitled to protect myself. That's happening right now.
Wendy Jones |
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2001 : 15:41:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
This should be in another thread, but as far as I know, EVERY ATM transaction is photographed. As a matter of fact, every transaction conducted within a bank is stored on video tape. The vast majority of people going into a bank are NOT going to rob it. But they're on film, anyway.
Banks are private enterprise. If you don't want to be video taped, choose a bank that doesn't use that sort of security. Can't find one, keep your money in a mattress or a coffee can.
The same thing goes for rental cars. If you don't want restrictions on your speed, go to a rental car company that doesn't have the requirement, or buy a car.
Making these comparisons to cameras on public roads is comparing apples to oranges. Consumers have the right to choose not to frequent businesses when they disagree with their business practices. More importantly, my tax dollars to not pay for devices to regulate speed in rental cars, or the cameras used in banks.
Wendy Jones |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2001 : 15:42:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
We have the right (in theory) to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. If during my pursuit of happiness, I endanger your life you are entitled to protect yourself. It's never happened. Conversely, if during your pursuit of happiness, you endanger my liberty, I am also entitled to protect myself. That's happening right now.
What if the means of protection against unsafe drivers means electing officials that are willing to install these camera? Seems fair enough. You are threatened, you protect yourself. it doesn't have to mean you buy a gun 
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2001 : 18:04:37 [Permalink]
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No it doesn't require a gun to protect yourself on the road. However, it does require intelligence. Be a smart driver, someones tailgating, pull to the side of the road and let them pass. Look both ways before entering an intersection after the light has changed to green. Don't play your stereo so loud you can't hear a siren above it. Watch not just the car directly in front of you, watch three to four cars ahead (I hate big trucks, oh well). Be a safe driver, don't drive when tired (whoops!), don't drive when you've drunk any alcoholic beverage. Slow down, instead of speeding up, when you see a yellow light.
There are things that the individual can do to protect themselves passively without involving the government and giving over another liberty to them. Taking personal responsibility for your own driving habits is a good place to start.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2001 : 18:17:58 [Permalink]
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That's great in theory, but it only helps so much. This issue is nothing compared to so many freedoms we have lost due to imagined and manufactured dangers. Take the baggage search at airports...I can't remember EVER hearing about a US airliner being bombed over US soil yet we have this incredibly complex, yet stangely ineffective series of scans and searches to go through. Because of an out-of-control drug war the police can confiscate property even if someone has not been convicted and it's nearly impossible to get that proprty back. I would rather see people direct their moral outrage at things that have a greater effect than having your photo snapped because you actually did break the law.
I think on this people just want to get away with the crime. I just don't see that this is the place to make a stand on personal freedom when the real danger lies elsewhere.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2001 : 19:16:55 [Permalink]
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@tomic, you may not believe this, but tho I do about 5 to 10 over the limit I do really stop for yellow lights. It really pisses people off.
I will agree that there are other liberties which we must be concerned over losing as well. However, this one is just one nibble in the loss of liberties. If we remain unconcerned regarding the small ones soon those will be gone also.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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Kristin
Skeptic Friend
Canada
84 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2001 : 21:43:38 [Permalink]
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Don't play your stereo so loud you can't hear a siren above it.
Bringing back bad memories. *groan*
Just about every time I've been deliberately negligent, I have ended up paying for it in points off my license or cold hard cash ($1500 in damage after I hit a curb when I'd had a few drinks. Stupid.) And so have become more conscientious because of it. But could have been dead rather than enlightened. (NOTE: that particular stupid incident is when my father related the quote to me that is now my .sig)
Anyways. I had a moment, sorry, back to your regularly scheduled programming.
Good judgement comes from experience: experience comes from bad judgement. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2001 : 23:41:02 [Permalink]
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Be a smart driver, someones tailgating, pull to the side of the road and let them pass. Look both ways before entering an intersection after the light has changed to green. Don't play your stereo so loud you can't hear a siren above it
It's so hard to believe but there really are stupid people who don't think of those things. (sigh)
This happened years ago, on a busy street during rush hour the trafic was backed up, stop and go. The lane I was in came to a stop, it happened to be just in front of the cross street where I stopped, I stayed there in case cars wanted to go past. If I would have driven up to the car behind me I would have been blocking them. The moron behind me actually pulled around me from the right and move into the space in front of me. Blocking the intersection. So there he sat, blocking everyone for several minutes until the trafic started to move. Now we have writing on the street in places like that saying, Do Not Block.
Let's hope people like that someday get a Darwin Award. Heh, he.
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2001 : 23:55:33 [Permalink]
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Bringing back bad memories. *groan*
Just about every time I've been deliberately negligent, I have ended up paying for it in points off my license or cold hard cash ($1500 in damage after I hit a curb when I'd had a few drinks. Stupid.) And so have become more conscientious because of it. But could have been dead rather than enlightened. (NOTE: that particular stupid incident is when my father related the quote to me that is now my .sig)
Good judgement comes from experience: experience comes from bad judgement.
Guess we've all done something 'stupid' when we were young. I have to admit I was a speed freak, am much more careful now too. Even though all my accidents were not caused by speed. Two were head on, that's kind of exciting when you see that happen. LOL, gives you a sense of immortality when you survive. Oh, but I digress.
Glad you learned a lesson before getting a Darwin Award. Wish you would come to my neighborhood and teach the idiots who drive by with that horrid BOOM BOOM sound your experience.
One of these days I might buy a gun and use them as target practice.
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bestonnet_00
Skeptic Friend
Australia
358 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2001 : 05:27:44 [Permalink]
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My life is more important then the liberty of a criminal.
Wendy: You have to realise that running red lights is life threatening, and giving fines out and taking away the privledge to drive from those who run red lights is a way to stop them.
You seem to think I'm doing this for happiness, strawman's like that aren't very good.
As for government not being a private enterprise. You have more control over government then the business.
You can vote as well as leave.
With businesses you can only leave.
Thats right, if you don't like your government and can't change it, then find a government you like better.
There are more then 200 to choose from.
Radioactive GM Crops.
Slightly above background.
Safe to eat.
But no activist would dare rip it out.
As they think it gives them cancer. |
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2001 : 08:29:30 [Permalink]
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My life is more important then the liberty of a criminal.
I agree. Criminals, once proven to be criminals, belong in jail or in the grave.
quote:
Wendy: You have to realise that running red lights is life threatening, and giving fines out and taking away the privledge to drive from those who run red lights is a way to stop them.
I am not a stupid woman. I do realize the dangers that exist out there on the open road. (I related an incident involving my father earlier in the thread.) I am also not naive enough to think that cameras will stop people from running stop lights or driving too fast. They will simply provide the family of the injured or deceased with a ghoulish new home movie.
quote:
Thats right, if you don't like your government and can't change it, then find a government you like better.
I like my government just fine, thank you. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I did notice earlier in the thread that Germany has cameras at traffic lights...
Wendy Jones |
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Mespo_man
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2001 : 11:59:58 [Permalink]
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Banks are private enterprise. If you don't want to be video taped, choose a bank that doesn't use that sort of security. Can't find one, keep your money in a mattress or a coffee can.
The same thing goes for rental cars. If you don't want restrictions on your speed, go to a rental car company that doesn't have the requirement, or buy a car.
Making these comparisons to cameras on public roads is comparing apples to oranges. Consumers have the right to choose not to frequent businesses when they disagree with their business practices. More importantly, my tax dollars to not pay for devices to regulate speed in rental cars, or the cameras used in banks.
Add to the "private" list, gambling casinos, thousands upon thousands of office buildings, retail stores and shopping malls. You're tax dollars may not be paying for that stuff, but a certain percentage of your purchase through any national retailer IS.
As a defensive measure, cameras are being installed by police departments in their cruisers; also school buses and public schools throughout the country. Not to mention airports. Your tax dollars ARE paying for surveillance. GAWD YES!
So, when it comes down to traffic surveillance, it really becomes a moot point. The poor government agencies have to run to catch up to private enterprise.
BTW. I found a web site where I down-loaded a Russian spy satellite picture of my farm here in Northeastern Ohio. That's cuz I'm 5 miles from an Air National Guard base. Really fine resolution. Had I known before-hand, I would have mowed a "greeting"  in my pasture.
(:raig
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2001 : 18:20:15 [Permalink]
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Add to the "private" list, gambling casinos, thousands upon thousands of office buildings, retail stores and shopping malls. You're tax dollars may not be paying for that stuff, but a certain percentage of your purchase through any national retailer IS.
Different situations and you are missing the point.
I'd rather shop in a store with camera and pay that way then pay because of shoplifters. It is their choice to put the cameras on their own property.
quote:
As a defensive measure, cameras are being installed by police departments in their cruisers; also school buses and public schools throughout the country. Not to mention airports. Your tax dollars ARE paying for surveillance. GAWD YES!
So, when it comes down to traffic surveillance, it really becomes a moot point. The poor government agencies have to run to catch up to private enterprise.
No, when you are on tape after the police catch you it's for both your and the police protection to know what happens during that time. It means a live officer saw something that appeared to be wrong. You can talk to him and he can write a ticket and explain what happened. A camera can't.
As for the other cameras like on school buses, that must be a local decision the people of the community want.
quote:
BTW. I found a web site where I down-loaded a Russian spy satellite picture of my farm here in Northeastern Ohio. That's cuz I'm 5 miles from an Air National Guard base. Really fine resolution. Had I known before-hand, I would have mowed a "greeting" in my pasture.
(:raig
That would have been so cool. You still can. How about a Hammer and Sickel. Did you ever see a movie called 'Morgan'? Chk it out, ha ha.
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art. |
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2001 : 20:12:42 [Permalink]
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Different situations and you are missing the point.
I'd rather shop in a store with camera and pay that way then pay because of shoplifters. It is their choice to put the cameras on their own property.
Bravo, Snake! 
quote:
No, when you are on tape after the police catch you it's for both your and the police protection to know what happens during that time. It means a live officer saw something that appeared to be wrong.
Exactly. I was all pumped up to make these responses, but you beat me to it. 
Wendy Jones |
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