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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
 Posted - 08/02/2001 : 02:14:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
I can basically agree with that, but there are plenty of other factors like theft and statistics that contribute heavily and have nothing to do with a lack of insurance.
Oh right, I forgot about that. Ok, but still, with theft it's still someone who doesn't give a damn about anyone else. Same as a red light runner or someone without ins.
quote:
It's not always those "other" people that are to blame.
@tomic
Yes it is! 
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bestonnet_00
Skeptic Friend
Australia
358 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2001 : 03:32:51 [Permalink]
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The thing that most of those who keep talking about 'liberty' seem to forget is that rights are often contradictory.
For example my right to live on a planet which isn't like Venus contradicts the corporate right to pump CO2 and other stuff into the atmosphere.
Society has to decide which right gets precedence.
So what do you prefer, to have the right to drive on the road without having some idiot who drives through stop signs, traffic lights, and speeds all the time kill or injure you.
Or the right not to be photographed if you break the law?
Isn't it accepted that people who break the law could be photographed?
Radioactive GM Crops.
Slightly above background.
Safe to eat.
But no activist would dare rip it out.
As they think it gives them cancer. |
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2001 : 06:45:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
So what do you prefer, to have the right to drive on the road without having some idiot who drives through stop signs, traffic lights, and speeds all the time kill or injure you.
Or the right not to be photographed if you break the law?
I prefer both, and right now both is what I have.
"What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly... it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as freedom should not be highly rated." -- Thomas Paine
Wendy Jones |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2001 : 16:43:52 [Permalink]
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"What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly... it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as freedom should not be highly rated." -- Thomas Paine
Nice quote Wendy. Also...
Those who give up Liberty for Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
(Now if only I could remember who said it think it was Jefferson - RUBYSUE HELP!)
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2001 : 17:00:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Those who give up Liberty for Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
Thanks, Trish. It was Ben Franklin. That's a great one too.
Wendy Jones |
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bestonnet_00
Skeptic Friend
Australia
358 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2001 : 03:12:47 [Permalink]
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Do you really have both?
The Franklin quote whilst it may sound good is too simplistic and ignores the fact that safety is a form of liberty.
Radioactive GM Crops.
Slightly above background.
Safe to eat.
But no activist would dare rip it out.
As they think it gives them cancer. |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2001 : 03:51:58 [Permalink]
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So how about this...you rent, lease or finance a car...if you speed the vehicles owner fines you. Is that OK? It's not your car after all and maybe you have to sign an agreement stating that you will not spped or you will be fined and acknowledge that the vehicle is electronically monitored. This already goes on, but it's not too farfetched to see it happen on a significantly more widespread basis.
tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2001 : 12:11:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
So how about this...you rent, lease or finance a car...if you speed the vehicles owner fines you. Is that OK?
For those of you just tuning in, and not bothering to read the whole thread, I believe I brought this up early on, in a story about Acme Rental Car using GPS systems installed in their cars to fine renters who speed.
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Ma gavte la nata! |
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Penyprity
Skeptic Friend
64 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2001 : 13:00:14 [Permalink]
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Although I would love to see all the idiots who crash red lights because they think the yellow light means go faster, get tickets, what price do the rest of us pay. It just feels to much like "Big Brother" and that worries me. Every time we give up a little piece of privacy or liberty, we give up a much larger piece of our personal freedoms. Having been hit in an intersection by one of these guys crashing a light, I would like to think that the way we resolved the issue (legally) was a better way then to have film on it. I like to think that I drive carefully, watching for what might come my way, but camera or no, accidents will happen, and idiots will still be idiots. What ever happened to the police watching the intersections and pulling people over for their wrong doing. And what happens to the pictures when the ticket has been mailed out. Not to be overly paranoid, but we live in a society where documentation can and has been a fact of life for years. Do I think there is an FBI file on me, probably. Why? I dont know. Maybe becuase Im registered to vote, or because Im a democrate, or maybe beacuse I have posted at the ACLU on the first amendment or pro choice. Or maybe because I work for a municipal utility. Do I really want cameras mounted every where I go? When and where do we draw the line? Plus with digital imaging, who is to say the picture isnt altered, and who can fight a picture. Just to many reasons against having cameras on our streets, than reasons for having them.
On another side of this issue...my husband drives an '85 Corvette. As some of you may know..the front of a corvette usually has a color keyed plate with the word "corvette" on it where the license plate would go. Its a classic design that many sports cars have. These cars are now being pulled over and the drivers given tickets for not displaying the front plate, which was legal until this last January. Obviously, if a car has no front plate, a photo of wrong doing will not produce a ticket. My husband now drives around with the plate in the front windshield. This is acceptable for the moment. Im not sure how a collector feels about this as it alters the classic look of a classic car, but we are not happy about it.
Make your vote count. Become a supreme court justice......Peny
Edited by - Penyprity on 08/03/2001 15:23:31 |
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Mespo_man
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2001 : 13:32:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
No one should have their privacy taken away for something they might do
This should be in another thread, but as far as I know, EVERY ATM transaction is photographed. As a matter of fact, every transaction conducted within a bank is stored on video tape. The vast majority of people going into a bank are NOT going to rob it. But they're on film, anyway.
We gave up the freedom of an anonymous monetary transaction years ago, without so much as a peep. But we're going to fight tooth-and-nail about the right to go hurling through an intersection against the light in a multi-ton vehicle without being photographed? Amazing ordering of priorities, isn't it?  |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2001 : 17:13:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
So how about this...you rent, lease or finance a car...if you speed the vehicles owner fines you. Is that OK?
For those of you just tuning in, and not bothering to read the whole thread, I believe I brought this up early on, in a story about Acme Rental Car using GPS systems installed in their cars to fine renters who speed.
And it's their right to do that. It's their property. As long as the person renting the car knows about it, he has no excuse to complain. Go to another dealer if he doesn't like it.
VHEMT |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2001 : 17:26:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Every time we give up a little piece of privacy or liberty, we give up a much larger piece of our personal freedoms,.............. Do I really want cameras mounted every where I go? When and where do we draw the line?
Right ON! Peny.
quote:
On another side of this issue...my husband drives an '85 Corvette.
Well, all right! My dream car. Maybe not the '85, I like more, the orginal ones but who cares, it's a Corvette!
Is it black? Saw one on the freeway the other day going north on the 101, couldn't stop looking,(sigh). I'll waive to him next time. 
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2001 : 22:03:19 [Permalink]
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What a private business owner chooses to do on their property is their business. If you choose to do business there that is you choice. When cameras are mounted at locations by the public authority whether those cameras are readily visible or hidden that is what poses the problem. No reason exists for governmental spying on the populace at large. This is the primary issue here, whether the government should be allowed to spy using new technology - causing a loss of our individual freedoms and rights.
The question becomes one of where does the use of technology for public safety vs the rights and liberties of its citizens. Does the use of technology in this manner constitute a violation of our constitutional rights.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2001 : 22:14:34 [Permalink]
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What I mean is, as others have said surveilance is becoming a fact of life. So the police don't do it, but suddenly you find that your insurance company knows how fast you are going and jacks your rate up, or your bank that is holding your car title until you have finished paying decides that you are not worth the risk due to your speeding etc.
Worrying about the cops may become small potatoes compared to private surveilance. Be on the lookout for an IPO from the Big Brother Corporation 
 @tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2001 : 22:57:27 [Permalink]
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Ahhhhhhhh, ya veezhu. (I see - unfortunately it looks much better in cyrillic text). Well Understood about that @tomic. Haven't considered that angle - let me think on it.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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