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MartinM
New Member
6 Posts |
 Posted - 06/13/2002 : 20:15:32 [Permalink]
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Well, if we're talking sea-level, you ought to take a look at this -
http://www.pog.su.se/sea/14_news.htm
To quote,
quote:
Chapter 11 on "Sea Level Changes" of IPCC's 1999 TAR paper (cf. above) was written by 33 persons; none of which represents actual sea level research
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This chapter has a low and unacceptable standard. It should be completely rewritten by a totally new group of authors chosen among the group of true sea level specialists
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All handling by IPCC of the Sea Level questions have been done in a way
that cannot be accepted and that certainly not concur with modern knowledge of the mode and
mechanism of sea level changes. We have stressed this in previous reviews. It is unbelievable
that the sea level scenarios have been “accepted/approved”. It reveals that something in the
whole process of IPCC, is deeply rotten. The sea level question must be completely revised by
true specialists on exactly this question. As is now stands it is deeply wrong and deeply
misguiding
Edited by - MartinM on 06/13/2002 20:16:31 |
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echthroi_man
Skeptic Friend
104 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2002 : 19:00:51 [Permalink]
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It seems to me that, if global warning at its worst turns out to be real, alot of people are going to wish they had been kinder to Fleischmann and Pons!
The Irish Headhunter
Oblivion -- When you REALLY want to get away from it all! |
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PruplePanther
Skeptic Friend
USA
79 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2004 : 09:36:37 [Permalink]
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Am not sure what "waterworld" is but it sounds like about what will happen so i voted for #1 even tho a BIG 57% voted for #2 saying that "some" cities will be flooded. NYC? Boston? S.F.? Savanah? London? WOW! 
Maybe even state capital Tallahassee? Can only hope so.
Well at least Paris and Moscow are safe.  |
"If I don't know where we are, I can't plot a course home." Major Carter, SG-1 |
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Sea Sorbust
Skeptic Friend
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2004 : 08:16:01 [Permalink]
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Voted with majority with "Some cities will be flooded if we don't change away from fossil fuels" but have two problems with this answer.- "Some cities" should read "Most cities" since most cities are located near oceanic shorelines.
- Think that it's already too late: The flooding is going to happen as Antarctica and the world's other glaciers melt and raise ocean levels. We can turn things around by radical change in energy usage policies but not in time to stop the worst of the flooding.
[sarcasm on] It's too bad that our ancestors were so short sighted and didn't built their cities well away from the coasts.[/sarcasm off]  |
"This is the forest primeval...."  |
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Uzumaki_Naruto
New Member
1 Post |
Posted - 05/10/2004 : 13:40:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by seb
quote:
Seb, unfortunately humans as a part of the ecosystem have an impact - with or without technology and industrialization. Imagine the pollutants in the atmosphere from a few billion fires being lit to heat homes instead of the filtered stacks at the electric company. We need to look for the balance between our impact and our ecosystem. Regardless of what we do - we will have an impact on the ecosystem - it is inevitable - we are a part of the ecosystem.
Trish, I agree on that. But nevertheless we have technological means to reduce our impact on the environnement by recycling and using more efficient systems.
When for immediate profits we do not use this means thinking that our planet ressources are illimited we show how irresponsible we are.
Seb
What's with you people and recycling? It uses much more energy then it does to get new resources and it adds more pollutants because of the cleaning, we have much more trees in this country (which they're mainly taken from) It also costs more for the extra service. The landfills are small and safe and do not require anything, they even collect the methane to power homes...How's that for economical? Also the earth is much cooler then it use to be. The one thing I agree is the fossil fuels shouldn't be used. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2004 : 18:24:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Uzumaki_Naruto:
What's with you people and recycling? It uses much more energy then it does to get new resources and it adds more pollutants because of the cleaning, we have much more trees in this country (which they're mainly taken from) It also costs more for the extra service. The landfills are small and safe and do not require anything, they even collect the methane to power homes...How's that for economical? Also the earth is much cooler then it use to be. The one thing I agree is the fossil fuels shouldn't be used.
Most of this is true. Aluminum can recycling has turned out to be cost effective, however. Is the earth cooler? And could it be that there is a paradoxical effect to global warming, over the short term?
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2004 : 18:26:13 [Permalink]
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The Sun is the major cause of global cooling or warming. Eventually, the Sun will turn into a Red Giant (not having anything to do with fossil fuels) and the Earth will be fried. At one time there was a very cold period (The Maunder Minimum) caused by the Sun. The Sun has more to do with our heating or cooling than anything humans can accomplish on their own.
ljbrs |
"Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve about these suns in a manner similar to the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings inhabit these worlds."
Giordano Bruno
(Burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church Inquisition in 1600) |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2004 : 00:49:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Think that it's already too late: The flooding is going to happen as Antarctica and the world's other glaciers melt and raise ocean levels. We can turn things around by radical change in energy usage policies but not in time to stop the worst of the flooding.
First, I apologize if this has already been covered in this thread.... but just felt a need to respond....
On H2O....
1. Frozen water takes up more volume than liquid water.
2. Water achieves it's highest density at 4 degrees centigrade.
3. If the artic icecap melts, ocean levels would actually drop, not rise, as ice requires greater volume per mass unit than liquid water.
4. If the antartic ice caps melt (as they rest on land, not water) there could be a resulting rise in ocean levels.... but it would probably be minimal.
5. Water becomes less dense as it's temperature moves down OR up from 4 degrees centigrade.
6. If any flooding were to result from global warming, the expansion of the worlds oceans (caused by increased temperature) would be the most likely cause... NOT melting ice caps.
On Warming...
There is an observable trend of warming going on. If this trend continues, then there may verywell be some flooding of coastal areas.
There is no evidence that doesn't fall prey to a huge case of confirmation bias to indicate global warming has a specific cause. However, only the most stubborn republicans will refuse to admit that the planet is warming up as we speak.
It would be nice to see some non-bais investigation into this, but the issue is a highly politically charged one.
And...
quote:
Eventually, the Sun will turn into a Red Giant (not having anything to do with fossil fuels) and the Earth will be fried.
Huh? |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2004 : 13:00:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
And...
quote:
Eventually, the Sun will turn into a Red Giant (not having anything to do with fossil fuels) and the Earth will be fried.
Huh?
As the Sun continue to burn it's fuel, it will increase in size (and radiation). In a billion years from now, the temperature increase will have boiled out all water from our oceans, and the UV-radiation separated the hydrogen to bleed out into space. By then, the Earth will resemble Venus in climate, rather than present Earth. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2004 : 14:06:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
[And...
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eventually, the Sun will turn into a Red Giant (not having anything to do with fossil fuels) and the Earth will be fried.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Huh?
I was intentionally being silly by adding to the "Maunder Minimum" bit and continuing with the evolution of the Sun into a red giant star. The inner planets, including Earth, will be gone. Later the Sun will become a white dwarf. Then again, we could go further with this by adding the merging of the Andromeda Galaxy with our Milky Way. Oh, the horrors that are coming.
There have been quite a few cold periods on Earth (like the "Maunder Minimum" where the Sunspot Cycle went through a long period of an absence of sunspots). The Sun, itself, has more to do with our weather than most people understand. Humans only add to the problem. While humans can create bad things, natural forces are always going to win, one way or another.
ljbrs |
"Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve about these suns in a manner similar to the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings inhabit these worlds."
Giordano Bruno
(Burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church Inquisition in 1600) |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2004 : 14:16:29 [Permalink]
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| I'm familliar with the concept of solar life cycles.... the "huh?" was just me wondering what your connection between the end of our sun's lifespan and current global warming had in common.... |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2004 : 01:36:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
If we don't stop using polluting fossil fuels like coal and nuclear power waterworld will come true
How would the use of nuclear power cause the melting of enough ice to cause such floods? |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2004 : 12:53:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
3. If the artic icecap melts, ocean levels would actually drop, not rise, as ice requires greater volume per mass unit than liquid water.
The volume of the water that an ice-berg displaces is equal to the mass of the ice-berg. The ice-berg's total volume is irrelevant, because it is when the ice-berg is melted that the volume is relevant. And at that point its water's mass is the same volume as the displaced water. So the as long as the ice is floating, it will not affect ocean level at all.
Ice on the ground is another matter completely.
quote:
4. If the antartic ice caps melt (as they rest on land, not water) there could be a resulting rise in ocean levels.... but it would probably be minimal.
The thickness of the ice and antarctic's ice surface area as a percentage of the ocean's surface area might give a clue.
If the average ice-cover equals 1km of water and antarctica's surface equals one percent of the Earth's total ocean surface, the the water will rise 10 meters. That would be bad enough for coastal cities.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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