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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
 Posted - 02/26/2003 : 13:13:01 [Permalink]
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Slater, I'm well aware that DA is a waste of energy, but it's almost too much fun to watch him lug the goalposts from one place to another over and over again.
Well, have fun, but remember you can lead a horses arse to knowledge but you can't make him think. |
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darwin alogos
SFN Regular
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2003 : 20:45:47 [Permalink]
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Slater: quote:
Well, have fun, but remember you can lead a horses arse to knowledge but you can't make him think.
A clearer sense of irony couldn't have been paid for from a Holywood script writer. I would be just tickled pink if you would supply an argument with evidence to support your views.  |
To deny logic you must use it.To deny Jesus Existed you must throw away all your knowledge of the ancient world. To deny ID
you must refute all analogical reasoning. So the question is why deny? |
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darwin alogos
SFN Regular
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2003 : 23:09:33 [Permalink]
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Dave W.: quote:
DA, you're still not getting it. My engine wouldn't burn fuel at all unless something else caused it to. That it burns fuel in
porportion to how hard I push on the pedal (disregarding gears for now) is precisely how effects in an open system can
be larger than their causes. This is how many machines work. If it can't happen, then numerous machines would simply
fail, like your attempts at logic.
There is some equivocation going on here but tis you who are committing the fallacy.The horsepower of the engine determines how fast your car will move.If a car with 80hp is petal to the metal according to your strange logic would pass a car with 300hp cruising at only half throtle. |
To deny logic you must use it.To deny Jesus Existed you must throw away all your knowledge of the ancient world. To deny ID
you must refute all analogical reasoning. So the question is why deny? |
| Edited by - darwin alogos on 02/26/2003 23:13:27 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2003 : 04:09:36 [Permalink]
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How much power an engine produces is irrelevant to the point.
Let me dumb this down as much as I can for you with a different example: a single skier can cause an avalanche which destroys dozens of buildings in seconds.
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Jelly Fish
New Member
46 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2003 : 13:18:06 [Permalink]
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Darwin said....."The horsepower of the engine determines how fast your car will move.If a car with 80hp is petal to the metal according to your strange logic would pass a car with 300hp cruising at only half throtle. "
Now I'm into sceptiscm alright, but when I see a topic called does God exist, and I go to the last page to join in, I see the above.
Its back to cars again isnt it? Does Jesus drive?
You lot aint sceptics!!...youre just car fanatics who are trying to work out a reason to give to the world for how the Lord god almighty and his son might have been car owners.
Its sad.
Jelly
floating ..and floating |
Glendower..“I can call spirits from the vasty deep.”
Hotspur..“Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them?”
Jelly.."Not a hope in hell"
adapted from Henry 1V part 1 by Mr W. Shakespeare |
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walt fristoe
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2003 : 13:57:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Jelly Fish
Darwin said....."The horsepower of the engine determines how fast your car will move.If a car with 80hp is petal to the metal according to your strange logic would pass a car with 300hp cruising at only half throtle. "
Now I'm into sceptiscm alright, but when I see a topic called does God exist, and I go to the last page to join in, I see the above.
Its back to cars again isnt it? Does Jesus drive?
You lot aint sceptics!!...youre just car fanatics who are trying to work out a reason to give to the world for how the Lord god almighty and his son might have been car owners.
Its sad.
Jelly
floating ..and floating
Hi JF!
You may not be able to rightly judge this conversion by just reading the last couple of posts; however it has, I'll admit, wandered far and wide. There's no telling where it will go next; for me, that's one of the main attractions! I like the unpredictable. |
"If God chose George Bus of all the people in the world, how good could God be?"
Bill Maher |
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darwin alogos
SFN Regular
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2003 : 01:11:20 [Permalink]
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Dave W.: quote:
How much power an engine produces is irrelevant to the point.
Boy you are one confused puppy.In my example concerning horsepower the velocity of the auto's in question was all in vain? Your original example( not the wichcraft one ) stated: quote:
Would you like another? If I push down three inches on my gas pedal for
60 seconds, my car moves a hell of a lot more than 3 inches during that time. Little cause, big effect.
Now Dave take a deep breath and pause and think about what your saying here Your little cause of pushing down on the "gas pedal",supposedly results in a great effect? But WHY Dave? If the car isn't turned on does it? And like both of us stated other things have to occur first(gas in the tank,clutch in drive ect.) before the effect of the car changing its normal state of inertia to where it is no longer a body at rest, and just why is that Dave its thehorsepower of the engine!Try this "little" experiment Dave (hopefully you have a powerful enough engine that will demonstrate my point) strat you car up and put it in drive DON'T TOUCH THE GAS PEDAL,also do this on a level area,and watch a miracle happen Dave,THE CAR WILL BEGIN TO MOVE.The reason being is the horse power of the car will CAUSE it to leave its state of inertia.All your pressing on the gas pedal does is allow the cause of the movement to use more of the horsepower and move at a greater speed. |
To deny logic you must use it.To deny Jesus Existed you must throw away all your knowledge of the ancient world. To deny ID
you must refute all analogical reasoning. So the question is why deny? |
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darwin alogos
SFN Regular
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2003 : 01:31:25 [Permalink]
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Dave W.: quote:
Let me dumb this down as much as I can for you with a different example: a single skier can cause an avalanche which
destroys dozens of buildings in seconds.
I hope by my last explanation you will see the error of your reasoning and realize that it is you who needs a "dumb...down" version of Newton's laws of motion and one of the foundational principles of science that no effect can be greater than its cause.Now as far as your other example above you don't even need a 'single skier" to set off an avalanche,all you need is a snowflake; to which it sets the weight of the mass of snow over its breaking point and the law of gravity does the rest.What causes the snow to fall down Dave? If we could somehow take the same massive amount of snow in the avalanche half way to the Moon and release it above our spacecraft would it come crashing down on us? Anyhow it's late and I have to go,I hope tomorrow I won't see you floundering on the obvious Dave. |
To deny logic you must use it.To deny Jesus Existed you must throw away all your knowledge of the ancient world. To deny ID
you must refute all analogical reasoning. So the question is why deny? |
| Edited by - darwin alogos on 02/28/2003 01:32:32 |
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Jelly Fish
New Member
46 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2003 : 01:53:48 [Permalink]
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I've looked at Slaters avatar/picture thingy, and I cant work out what it is?
I've decided its a bear eating a massive orange!
Can anyone enlighten me?
Jelly fish |
Glendower..“I can call spirits from the vasty deep.”
Hotspur..“Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them?”
Jelly.."Not a hope in hell"
adapted from Henry 1V part 1 by Mr W. Shakespeare |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2003 : 02:04:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Jelly Fish
I've looked at Slaters avatar/picture thingy, and I cant work out what it is?
Its Koko!
Se page 4 in the thread "Divine Foreknowledge and Free Will"
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2003 : 02:36:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by walt fristoe
I like the unpredictable.
Like someone using the God of the Gaps fallacy to show that he isn't using the God of the Gaps fallacy?
I found that to be rather predictable.
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Jelly Fish
New Member
46 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2003 : 03:44:39 [Permalink]
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Koko the gorilla....excellent...
thanks starman
Jelly |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2003 : 04:28:35 [Permalink]
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DA wrote:quote:
...and one of the foundational principles of science that no effect can be greater than its cause.
You keep stating this, without providing any evidence that it is true. Provide a citation from a reliable source which states this.
You are continuing to equivocate the terms "cause and effect" and "entropy." You said it yourself: a single snowflake can cause an avalanche. Gravity does not 'cause' them, since if the causative agent doesn't trigger one, the snow will remain in place and melt. Once that trigger is tripped, gravity helps. The fact that you still don't comprehend the witchcraft example is evidence that you simply don't understand the word 'cause'.
You've also failed to provide a definition of 'mind'. You'll also need to provide evidence and argument that the laws of physics apply to your idea of 'mind' before I'll accept your position that the creation of minds can only be done by larger minds. Of course, if you do that, you'll also need to provide evidence that the laws of physics don't necessarily apply to God's mind (in which case, why argue for the existence of God based on your mistaken claims about the "foundational principles of science" at all?).
You also have yet to provide a shred of good evidence that life on Earth actually was designed.
By the way, my old Mustang had a big, beefy engine, but a screwed-up transmission. Putting it in drive without stepping on the gas would result in no movement whatsoever on level ground. But if you floored the pedal, it would zip along the road (being another example of a big effect from a little cause). My current car, with its pitiful little engine, doesn't have this problem, but it won't move as quickly at full throttle, either.
Surely you understand that if you plot the amount of work done by a person's foot on the gas pedal versus the amount of work done by the car, for any non-zero deflection of the pedal, the slope of the line is far above 1:1, given an engine with more horsepower than the driver's leg muscles. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2003 : 12:53:02 [Permalink]
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I've looked at Slaters avatar/picture thingy, and I cant work out what it is?
I've decided its a bear eating a massive orange!
On the coast about an hour south of San Francisco is the town of Half Moon Bay where every October they hold a huge pumpkin festival. There I picked up a car load of pumpkins to give to the staff of the Gorilla Foundation (www.koko.org). I carved Koko's name into one. She can read-3rd or 4th grade level-and I thought that she would like it. She did, she said it was delicious, but could have cared less about the carving.
The photo, taken by Ron Cohn, is of Koko taking a break from her music work (note the horn in her hand) to make a snack of my jack-o-lantern.
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darwin alogos
SFN Regular
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2003 : 16:03:17 [Permalink]
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Dave W.: quote:
By the way, my old Mustang had a big, beefy engine, but a screwed-up transmission. Putting it in drive without stepping
on the gas would result in no movement whatsoever on level ground. But if you floored the pedal, it would zip along the
road (being another example of a big effect from a little cause). My current car, with its pitiful little engine, doesn't have
this problem, but it won't move as quickly at full throttle, either.
Of course if your "transmission" is "screwed-up"(just has your reasoning apparently is) the experiment won't work you ninny.I tired it last night as left work,put the " little" 4 banger in reverse on a slope it backed up no problem.Your failure to admmit the obvious Dave is pathetic. |
To deny logic you must use it.To deny Jesus Existed you must throw away all your knowledge of the ancient world. To deny ID
you must refute all analogical reasoning. So the question is why deny? |
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