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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 03/09/2003 : 19:49:55 [Permalink]
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I want to add to the above statements about US big oil benefitting from an iraq war. Right now with the price of oil near all-time highs, the oil companies are enjoying fabulous profits since the US is one of the worlds biggest producers of oil and oil is no more expensive to extract than this time last year. But now, with the threat of war looming, oil itself is worth more. So big oil is already reaping the benfits of even a possible war. If there is a war expect oil to become even more expensive at least for some months if not years. With oil reserves at a low not seen since 1975 you might think the President might release some of the oil stockpiled in its reserves but he has yet to do so. This only helps keep the cost of oil high. The oil companies, in the meantime, make out like bandits. I'm sure glad my car gets 30+ MPG because this all impacts me for $10 a month or so and I can go almost an entire month between refueling. How about the rest of you?
@tomic |
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2003 : 20:20:11 [Permalink]
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My commute is about 90 miles a day, so I fill the tank every three or four business days, on average. I beginning to seriously consider getting one of the gas/electric hybrids.
What really stinks is that I used to get my mileage re-imbursed, which paid for the gas and then some (and even at today's prices, I'd more than break-even). But then my company officially made the place I'm commuting to my "office," instead of my actual office (ten minutes from home on foot!), so no more expensing the mileage. Pbbbbt! |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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ktesibios
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2003 : 21:57:50 [Permalink]
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I consume all of about 15 gallons of gas per month, so having the pump prices here in LA up to $2/gal for the cheap stuff isn't that much of a direct drain on my wallet.
It's the indirect effects of higher fuel prices that are really gonna ####. |
"The Republican agenda is to turn the United States into a third-world shithole." -P.Z.Myers |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2003 : 23:48:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Tokyodreamer
Just out of curiosity, since the Political forum has pretty much been a unanimous "Bash Bush Fest" for weeks now, I'm wondering if any of you guys have ever reflected on how objective you are being with regards to him and his speeches?
I have no desire to defend the guy (his religious antics alone are enough for me to want him out of there), but I just wonder if you guys are hearing what you expect to hear, rather than what he is actually saying.
For example, I found his speech last night pretty light on the typical political spin, disengenuous doublespeak (though I thought it odd he wouldn't answer the question about whether or not a "victory" must include killing or capturing Saddam). If we were to give him the benefit of the doubt about any speculative ulterior motives for war with Iraq (revenge, oil, etc.), I thought he made an excellent case for the go-ahead.
I think the problem with the guy is that he is unwilling to listen to others having dismissed the European countries, protests and public opinion. The Bush administration has been downright rude to other nations that have dared to oppose the push into Iraq.
"If your are not with us, you are against us" says it all about the Bush administration. |
Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2003 : 08:07:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Tokyodreamer
Just out of curiosity, since the Political forum has pretty much been a unanimous "Bash Bush Fest" for weeks now, I'm wondering if any of you guys have ever reflected on how objective you are being with regards to him and his speeches?
I have no desire to defend the guy (his religious antics alone are enough for me to want him out of there), but I just wonder if you guys are hearing what you expect to hear, rather than what he is actually saying.
For example, I found his speech last night pretty light on the typical political spin, disengenuous doublespeak (though I thought it odd he wouldn't answer the question about whether or not a "victory" must include killing or capturing Saddam). If we were to give him the benefit of the doubt about any speculative ulterior motives for war with Iraq (revenge, oil, etc.), I thought he made an excellent case for the go-ahead.
I was genuinely listening to his speech in an attempt to decypher his purpose as well as the questions he took. I noted the subjects he ignored and the subjects he talked about instead of answering the question. I noted that the questioners did not press for an answer to direct questions that he did not answer. One reporter asked him about how his FAITH played a part of his decision.
Here's the message I gleaned from the whole thing.
1) Iraq has not complied with 1441. If the UN does not authorize force, then the US will go it alone. War is inevitable. "We will disarm him."
2) Iraq is supporting Al-Qieda type groups. (a severe back peadaling from direct support for Al-Qieda itself. Indicates a refutable position on Al-Qieda/Iraq link.)
3) Used the word "terror" liberally in his speech to refer to Iraq and Hussien.
4) Compared anti-war protesters to WTO rioting thugs. Very dismissive of any dissent. Claimed he wants to lead. Gave the clear indication that he has already made up his mind and will not shift it no matter what.
5) Sees Iraq as a bigger threat than North Korea.
6) Multiple uses of the "We wouldn't do this if Saddam would disarm. He won't disarm. We will disarm him." This seems to be his mantra. Seems not to recognize the additional cooperation that Iraq is supplying to inspectors. Seems not to recognize the compliance and start of complaince with past UN resolutions that have been occurring recently. Foregone conclusion by this administration that Iraq will not comply with 1441 and no matter what Iraq does there will be a ground war.
I fully expect that by Monday, March 17th, a state of war will exist between Iraq and the US. Some smaller and weaker countries have already signed on to an attack because they don't want to be the next target. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Orpheus
Skeptic Friend
92 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2003 : 00:55:57 [Permalink]
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Right on, Valiant Dancer!
I just don't get people's gullibility. Do they need a fucking line drawing?
If Bush is being sincere about the threat which Iraq poses to the US and to the region, why aren't there Marines knocking on the doors of North Korea, China, Cuba, and various African countries. In the case of the latter, Sierra Leon, Liberia and Ethiopia have had "civil wars" (read genocide) for decades!!
Well let's see....Iraq has oil, Iraq has oil, and oh yeah, Iraq has oil. It is extraordinary that the average US citizen seems to believe that America is fighting the "good fight", and that Bush wants to invade Iraq because Sadam is a "bad guy". The fact that Sadam is a terrible dictator has BUGGER ALL to do with this impending war. There are a lot of sick dictators in this world who are not looking over their shoulder for US cruise missiles.. |
Find your own damned answers! |
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Fireballn
Skeptic Friend
Canada
179 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2003 : 17:18:55 [Permalink]
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Iraq does have oil.....but the expense it will cost the United States for the war, the economic strain of the possibility of war, and then the rebuilding efforts, will far out weigh any oil contract Bush might recieve.
Do you really believe there is going to be an American flag flying in the middle of Bahgdad after the war? Or that Bush can just take the oil? After the war we will be buying it from Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Russia..... just like before the war.
What if Iraq privitized it's oil industry after the war. It would probably leave OPEC, and join the other top producer(Russia) out of it's grip. This would severly undermine opec's control of limiting oil production, which would inturn drive oil prices down.
I dont think for one second that Bush is going into Iraq because of the threat it poses. But it can not be just the oil, that he is not even going to get in the end. There has to be another motive. Maybe one piece in the eventual total control of the middle east. That sounds more plausible. |
If i were the supreme being, I wouldn't have messed around with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers 8 o'clock day one!
-Time Bandits- |
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LordofEntropy
Skeptic Friend
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2003 : 17:51:53 [Permalink]
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Actually in effect yes Fireballn. The administration has already stated publicly that the United States would take control of the Iraqi oilfields after the invasion. They stated that we would maintain control of said oilfields until the costs of the invasion AND reconstruction AND administration of Iraq until a "suitable" Iraqi government can be installed. The figure that was tossed out was something like 18 months(max production I imagine) to recoup all of the costs.
You can be sure that the "suitable" Iraqi government selected by the US, will have very friendly views on exporting oil to the US. They will probably also have favorable views on US military bases.
Oil however isn't the only reason, but it is certainly a significant reason. Ideaology is probably the biggest reason. Read the links in the 'Pax Americana' thread from a couple weeks ago, a couple articles with some good points on why Bush has a hardon for Iraq. |
Entropy just isn't what it used to be.
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2003 : 17:55:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Do you really believe there is going to be an American flag flying in the middle of Bahgdad after the war? Or that Bush can just take the oil? After the war we will be buying it from Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Russia..... just like before the war.
You don't see the problem. With sanctions in place only a trickle of oil leaves Iraq but the world needs the oil eventually as Asian economies continue to develop along with the rest of the world. It's not a matter of taking the oil but having it available for export.
OPEC is doing anything but limiting oil production. In fact, they are producing it at near capacity. I don't think anyone should consider the oil as the only reason but it is the only reason that makes any of this worth it in the end. I think a lot of it is family pride and some of it is an excuse to get a lot of US troops in the region. It's the US troops on Arab soil that caused bin Laden to form his band of merry men. That's something to think about...
@tomic |
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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