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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
 Posted - 03/17/2003 : 07:47:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote: originally posted by gezzam
There is also a possibility of WMD coming out of a plethora of other countries and going to terrorists groups, why not bomb the fuck out of them as well?
I'm so sick of this irrelevant red herring. The U.N. gave Iraq 30 days to disarm, or face "serious consequences". What do you think they should do?
If you read the last part of my post, I didn't deny that Iraq has broken U.N. resolutions, however there are a lot of other countries that have done the same and the U.S hasn't used that excuse to wage war....
quote:
Resolutions 252 (1968) Israel, 262 (1968) Israel, 267 (1969) Israel, 271 (1969) Israel, 298 (1971) Israel, 353 (1974) Turkey, 354 (1974) Turkey, 360 (1974) Turkey, 364 (1974) Turkey, 367 (1975) Turkey, 370 (1975) Turkey, 377 (1979) Morocco, 379 (1979) Morocco, 380 (1979) Morocco, 391 (1976) Turkey, 401 (1976) Turkey, 414 (1977) Turkey,422 (1977) Turkey, 440 (1978) Turkey, 446 (1979) Israel, 452 (1979) Israel, 465 (1980) Israel ,471 (1980) Israel, 484 (1980) Israel, 487 (1981) Israel, 497 (1981) Israel, 541 (1983) Turkey, 550 (1984) Turkey, 573 (1985) Israel, 592 (1986) Israel, 605 (1987) Israel, 607 (1986) Israel, 608 (1988) Israel, 636 (1989) Israel, 641 (1989) Israel, 658 (1990) Morocco, 672 (1990) Israel, 673 (1990) Israel, 681 (1990) Israel, 690 (1991) Morocco, 694 (1991) Morocco, 716 (1991) Morocco, 725 (1991) Morocco, 726 (1992) Israel, 799 (1992) Israel, 807 (1993) Croatia, 809 (1992) Morocco, 815 (1993) Croatia, 822 (1993) Armenia, 853 (1993) Armenia, 874 (1993) Armenia, 884 (1993) Armenia, 896 (1994) Russia, 904 (1994) Israel, 973 (1995) Morocco, 995 (1995) Morocco, 1002 (1995) Morocco, 1009 (1995) Croatia, 1017 (1995) Morocco, 1033 (1995) Morocco, 1044 (1996) Sudan, 1054 (1996) Sudan, 1056 (1996) Morocco, 1070 (1996) Sudan, 1073 (1996) Israel, 1079 (1996) Croatia, 1092 (1996) Turkey/Cyprus, 1117 (1997) Turkey/Cyprus, 1120 (1997) Croatia, 1145 (1997) Croatia, 1172 (1998) India, Pakistan, 1178 (1998) Turkey/Cyprus, 1185 (1998) Morocco, 1215 (1998) Morocco, 1217 (1998) Turkey/Cyprus, 1251 (1999) Turkey/Cyprus, 1264 (1999) Indonesia, 1272 (1999) Indonesia, 1283 (1999) Turkey/Cyprus, 1303 (2000) Turkey/Cyprus, 1319 (2000) Indonesia, 1322 (2000) Israel, 1331 (2000) Turkey/Cyprus, 1338 (2001) Indonesia, 1359 (2001) Morocco, 1384 (2001) Turkey/Cyprus, 1402 (2002) Israel, 1403 (2002) Israel, 1405 (2002) Israel, 1416 (2002) Turkey/Cyprus, 1435 (2002) Israel
These have all been broken to various degrees, many people have been left dead and homeless as a result of some of them being broken, why now is Iraq being attacked by a "coalition of the coerced" for its non-compliance. Hypocritical is it not?????
North Korea is directly threatening the U.S, Iran has started up it's nuclear program again and India and Pakistan were near nuclear confrontation not long ago over Kashmir.....but you are telling me the biggest threat in the world right now is Iraq? If so, why has the U.S government used lies and deception to attempt to prove it? If they were such a threat, wouldn't it be blatantly obvious. Iraq is a country that has been crippled under economic sanctions for 12 years.
You can't tell me there is not a hidden agenda here!!!! It's not just Iraq that is making the U.N irrelevant, it is also the U.S. and the fact that the current administration can't wait to get their grubby little hands on the Middle East's resources.
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Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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chainsaw
Skeptic Friend
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2003 : 07:48:42 [Permalink]
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| Tokyodreamer, even though you are amazed, I don't see that you have any less spin to your ideology and preconception that would make your opinion more valid. |
You can "believe" what you want, but you do have to get your science right or you'll flunk science. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2003 : 07:54:41 [Permalink]
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| Does being sick make one right? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2003 : 08:19:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by gezzam
however there are a lot of other countries that have done the same and the U.S hasn't used that excuse to wage war....
Arrgh! [rips what's left of hair out in frustration]
quote:
Hypocritical is it not?????
see above...
quote:
North Korea is directly threatening the U.S, Iran has started up it's nuclear program again and India and Pakistan were near nuclear confrontation not long ago over Kashmir.....but you are telling me the biggest threat in the world right now is Iraq?
I'm not telling you any such thing...
quote:
You can't tell me there is not a hidden agenda here!!!!
I have no desire to tell you that, nor is it relevant to this topic. [sigh]
I give up. Maybe I'm just not articulate enough to get you guys to understand what I'm talking about here, but this is too much stress for me to continue.
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2003 : 08:25:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Tokyodreamer
I give up. Maybe I'm just not articulate enough to get you guys to understand what I'm talking about here, but this is too much stress for me to continue.
Except for one thing I just have to ask:
quote:
Originally posted by chainsaw
I don't see that you have any less spin to your ideology and preconception that would make your opinion more valid.
And what ideology and preconceptions have I demonstrated in this thread?
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chainsaw
Skeptic Friend
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2003 : 08:29:03 [Permalink]
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I understand you are saying is that a strick literal reading of UN resolution 1441 gives us the right to wage war. Yes, I agree with you, if you look no further than 1441. However, I prefer to take a broader perspective, and my perception detects some "funny" business in the whole show. (Funny business meaning that not all the cards are on the table for us to see)
Normally I accept "funny" business as business as usual but in this case, it means many lives and the possible neutralization of the UN. |
You can "believe" what you want, but you do have to get your science right or you'll flunk science. |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2003 : 08:33:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by gezzam
however there are a lot of other countries that have done the same and the U.S hasn't used that excuse to wage war....
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Arrgh! [rips what's left of hair out in frustration]
quote:
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Hypocritical is it not?????
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see above...
I was writing my reply whist you posted the hypocrisy thing. Didn't realise till after I posted......
You said in the original post that...
quote:
But the main issue is the fact that the U.S., U.K., and Spain are basing their reasons for going to war on the past 12 years of Iraqi violations of U.N. resolutions, and most recently and definitively on Resolution 1441. The language was clear, and 1441 was passed unanimously by the U.N.!
and I am arguing that others have broken U.N resolutions as well. Why did the U.S and its allies not rush to war then? This is important because there need to be a bloody good reason to launce a pre-emptive strike because in doing so the U.S has set a dangerous precedent.It gives Nth Korea or others the same right if they feel that their national security may be compromised.
Oh hang on, most of the countries that broke the resolutions were allies of the U.S. One rule for one and another rule for others.... |
Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
| Edited by - gezzam on 03/17/2003 08:37:30 |
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NubiWan
Skeptic Friend
USA
424 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2003 : 13:20:12 [Permalink]
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 As much as it pains me to admit, the time to debate the Iraq situation, seems to have past. It's a 'done deal.' The best we can do now, is hope the loss of life will be held at a bare minium, and to conduct ourselves in a manner to assist the quickness of any conflict to its end. So will hold my nose, and stand behind our current president, and hope we as a people, will become more critically selective in our choice of leaders in the future. What else is there to do?
http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20030317-6594640.htm |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2003 : 13:28:12 [Permalink]
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| Impeachment. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 06:04:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by NubiWan
As much as it pains me to admit, the time to debate the Iraq situation, seems to have past. It's a 'done deal.' The best we can do now, is hope the loss of life will be held at a bare minium, and to conduct ourselves in a manner to assist the quickness of any conflict to its end. So will hold my nose, and stand behind our current president, and hope we as a people, will become more critically selective in our choice of leaders in the future. What else is there to do?
http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20030317-6594640.htm
I agree here. Although I am fervently anti-war, we must get behind our troops that are so far away from home. These men and woman have been put in the situation they are in by morons, however, we must support them and welcome them home when this atrocity is all over.
Bitch about the dickheads that put them there, not the troops themselves.
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Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 09:32:41 [Permalink]
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I just don't see this at all the way you do TD. The way I see it the resolution passed in November was worded to require another resolution to OK the use of force. This was in the press at the time. Several countries held out on the wording of it because it originally did trigger military action.
The thing is, now some of the countries felt the inspections were working. I agree, they were working at least to the point of rendering Saddam not completely toothless but weak enough to no longer be a serious threat to the region and he was certainly never a direct threat to the USA. That's a George Bush fantasy or lie. You make the call but it's certainly about as far from reality as you can get.
So now we are not going in by ourselves. No we have the white boy international social club of Australia, Great Britain and Spain tagging along. Wow! What a huge show of support! Hitler had a coalition, too if I recall. Japan and Italy. I guess that made it Ok for him. I, and a lot of Americans, think this is wrong for so many reasons but trying to twist the words serious consequences into meaning automatic military response is so much wishful thinking. it could mean tighter sanctions or perhaps something else but considering that some nations on the security council deliberately held out on the wording so that it did not trigger a military response makes this topic ridiculous.
@tomic |
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 09:39:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
Impeachment.
Already wrote my Congressmen asking for it, thanks.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 11:22:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by @tomic
So now we are not going in by ourselves.
The "Coalition for the Immediate Disarmament of Iraq":
Afghanistan, Albania, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Colombia, Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Georgia, Hungary, Italy, Japan (post conflict), Korea, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Philippines, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Spain, Turkey, Britain, Uzbekistan.
[Can't wait to hear all the reasons these countries are irrelevant.  ]
quote:
No we have the white boy international social club of Australia, Great Britain and Spain tagging along.
Are you serious? What a ridiculous thing to say. |
| Edited by - Tokyodreamer on 03/18/2003 11:37:09 |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 12:29:00 [Permalink]
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How many Afgans are going in? Albanians? Heck, anyone going in but US, Great Britain and Australia? No I didn't think so. A coalition of 3 unless you want to stretch things to include everyone that nods and winks. It wasn't ridiculous. If it wasn't a fact it would be but seeing that it is a fact it stands.
@tomic |
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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