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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 03/25/2003 : 18:43:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
This begs the question, Where does one draw the line with dissention?
Where does the dissenter become the traitor? In the case of the soldier, I believe it was well before he threw those grenades.
This is an excellent question -- excellent questions are the ones that are the most difficult to answer.
I think that the line must be drawn where persons and property are in danger of injury. However, that is not treason. I don't think even a riot at a peace march could be called treason. Treason begins when an individual or a group attacks the Constitution of the United States, which the soldier did when he fragged those people. By my definition, the FBI guy caught spying is also guilty of treason.
Now, you can't accuse someone for thinking, "I'd like to frag these bastards ." Until he actualty flipped the spoons, he was just another grunt, there to do his best.
Of course, this is less than a satisfactory answer. I hope some of the more philosophical folks will jump in, here.
Edited to add: The flag it's self is not important. It is merely a colorful bit of cloth, a symbol. What is important is what it represents. What the flag represents cannot be injured by burning the symbol.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 03/25/2003 18:49:00 |
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tw101356
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2003 : 19:53:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Fireballn
I see what you are saying Filthy, and I agree with you....up to the flag burning. Say what you want about this administration, but to burn a flag cuts deeper. It attacks the whole history of the country, and everything many have died for. Very disrespectful.
Tim, to dissent means to differ in opinion, or to disagree. The Montreal Canadiens fans disagree with America's decision to go to war. To show their dissention they booed the national anthem.
The guy who threw grenades into fellow soldiers tents as they slept, was also expressing his difference of opinion.
This begs the question, Where does one draw the line with dissention?
Where does the dissenter become the traitor? In the case of the soldier, I believe it was well before he threw those grenades.
Filthy has already touched on this question.
Throwing grenades is not expressing an opinion, but acting on one,
and illegal action is the point where dissent becomes crime.
(I would not disagree with 'decision to take action' being the
starting point, although I feel anti-conspiracy statutes to be
abuse-prone.)
Free speech is necessarily more restricted in the military, and
words that could merely lose a civilian his job would be considered
insubordination or disobedience coming from a serviceman, resulting
in non-judicial punishment or court martial. If the military doesn't
like your speech, they can make a federal case of it.
As for flag-burning, national-anthem-booing, and even the N.Z. Maoris
who mooned Queen Elizabeth, so what? Those are merely traditional
methods of group trolling. The best way to make them stop is to
ignore them. If you could somehow convince them that tattooing
"I'm an idiot" on their foreheads would mortally offend true, diehard,
patriots or conservatives or Americans or whatever, you'd have to put
your beverage down before watching the news lest you see protesters
and choke with laughter.
-- Henry |
- TW
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