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byhisgrace88
Formerly "creation88"
USA
166 Posts |
 Posted - 06/30/2003 : 23:36:41 [Permalink]
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How can all you people say that it's just a story of a genourous lady?????? On the day my G-Pa broke his shoe, the first package they EVER recieved from her came with an unusual size of shoe that fit him perfectly. More than five years later, when his shoe breaks again, the same lady sends the second and last package she ever sent them, and it was another pair of shoes, ON THE DAY HE BROKE THEM BOTH TIMES!!!!!!! You have to be very dense to take that as coincidence. I have more stories, but I suppose your either not gonna believe them or take them as "coincidence". But I am gonna share them anyway.
My parents have always had a little bit of a hard time with money but it's never been that bad. But one month 5 years ago it had gotten really bad. A credit card debt was due, and the grace period was over on it. So they had no choice but to pay it or the fee would get higher.
So our family went to church that week, knowing we had $30 for the whole week. A guy came to church with a check for $500.(matching the credit card bill) When my parents asked why he had given it o them then? He said he woke up at four in the morning the night before, and beyond all reason, "knew Pastor Don needed $500". Now if your telling me again that it's just a case of a genorous man your all dumber than I thought.
And to Dave W. When you say only a petty god would ever send someone to hell, you being a total hipocrite. Your doing exactly what your telling me I am doing, and that's not looking at the whole picture and only looking at your point of view. Look at it from my standpoint. God created man. Man rebelled. He died so wwe could have a chance to obey. Most rebelled again. Now I would say he has been MORE than genorous enough, so that hell is more than fair. So critisize me all you want. You havn't hesitated till now. But out of whatever respect you have for me.(its not much, if any) Don't EVER call our god a petty god.You are a sad man with many problems to work out, and I sincerly hope you work all of them out. To risk sounding stupod like your view of a typical christian. I will be praying that god works in your life. You will laugh it off I know. But please don't. Sincerly think about it again, study what you believe with no biast. If your honest with yourself I knoew you will find the right thing.
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Indeed, if we consider the unblushing promises of reward and the staggering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that Our Lord finds our desire, not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.-- C.S. Lewis |
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Vegeta
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2003 : 05:32:22 [Permalink]
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| One guy getting sent a shoe doesn't imply the Christian God exists and it certainly has nothing to do with creation. |
What are you looking at? Haven't you ever seen a pink shirt before?
"I was asked if I would do a similar sketch but focusing on the shortcomings of Islam rather than Christianity. I said, 'No, no I wouldn't. I may be an atheist but I'm not stupid.'" - Steward Lee |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2003 : 05:45:20 [Permalink]
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I dunno, all this banter was fun to start with. Now it's all predictable and boring....
YAWN
quote:
Don't EVER call our god a petty god
You don't mind calling the theory of evolution petty and stupid....pot calling the kettle black methinks...
YAWN again |
Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2003 : 07:15:08 [Permalink]
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Creation88 wrote:quote:
How can all you people say that it's just a story of a genourous lady?????? On the day my G-Pa broke his shoe, the first package they EVER recieved from her came with an unusual size of shoe that fit him perfectly.
Which meant she actually sent the shoes prior to that day, since shipping takes time. Did God send her a pre-cognitive vision? And it's pretty obvious that she knew your grandfather's shoe size. Any chance that grandma told her?quote:
ON THE DAY HE BROKE THEM BOTH TIMES!!!!!!! You have to be very dense to take that as coincidence.
No, you simply have to understand that far-out coincidences happen all the damn time. To assume that they are due to the machinations of God in your life is both arrogant and dense.quote:
When my parents asked why he had given it o them then? He said he woke up at four in the morning the night before, and beyond all reason, "knew Pastor Don needed $500". Now if your telling me again that it's just a case of a genorous man your all dumber than I thought.
"Beyond all reason?" Hardly. He was telling a little white lie to your parents, kiddo. Sorry to say, but even good Christians tell little fibs to make other people feel better. The coincidence here is that your parent's bill happened to be $500. I bet if it had been $100, that guy still would have come with a $500 check.
By the way, was the $500 for the church itself? Was the credit card the church's credit card?
Oh, does anybody want to get into that "proof denies faith" argument again? Trying to prove that your God exists does your God a disservice.
quote:
And to Dave W. When you say only a petty god would ever send someone to hell, you being a total hipocrite. Your doing exactly what your telling me I am doing, and that's not looking at the whole picture and only looking at your point of view. Look at it from my standpoint. God created man. Man rebelled. He died so wwe could have a chance to obey. Most rebelled again. Now I would say he has been MORE than genorous enough, so that hell is more than fair.
Judge not, lest ye be judged, kid. Whether or not you judge Hell to be "fair" has nothing whatsoever to do with the "big picture." God has infinite power. Using that power to punish people forever for not following a few rather arbitrary rules is called bullying. Plus, I was under the impression that God is supposed to be infinitely forgiving, in which case there is no need for Hell.
Look, the threat of eternal torment after death is nothing more than the divine version of "just wait until your father gets home!" It's used to keep children in line, which is perhaps why you are clinging to it so tenaciously.
quote:
So critisize me all you want. You havn't hesitated till now. But out of whatever respect you have for me.(its not much, if any) Don't EVER call our god a petty god. You are a sad man with many problems to work out, and I sincerly hope you work all of them out.
What problems would those be? I suppose "arguing theology with a 14-year-old" is high on the list.quote:
To risk sounding stupod like your view of a typical christian. I will be praying that god works in your life. You will laugh it off I know. But please don't.
No, I won't laugh it off. I consider it to be a grave insult. You ask me to respect your views, and not call your pathetic 'God' petty anymore, but then turn around and spit on my views of the world by telling me that you're going to pray for me? How dare you! You are one of the most UN-Christian little pukes I've ever had the displeasure to interact with. Pray for your own soul, kiddo: by your rules, you're going straight to Hell.
It just occured to me: if I'm right, and the Bible is nothing more than a moral guidebook, you'll never understand why your behaviour is so detestable. But if you are right, then after you die, your God, or someone quite close to Him, may do you the favor of giving you a stern talking-to before tossing you into the Fiery Pit. Therefore, my only hope of you ever realizing why what you've said is evil rests upon your Bible, your God, and your Hell all actually existing. How do you like that? If you win, you will actually lose.
quote:
Sincerly think about it again, study what you believe with no biast.
I will when you do. You apparently think that "unbiased" means "agrees with Creation88." In other words, you are refusing to see your own biases.quote:
If your honest with yourself I knoew you will find the right thing.
Believing in God, thinking He answers prayers, and having faith that if I act the right way, I'll live in paradise forever after I die is a pleasant little fiction. To be honest with myself, I must realize that life is short and brutal, and there's not going to be any help from above or parties afterwards. This life is not a rehearsal, I've got to make of it what I can for my family, myself, my friends, and everyone else (in that order of priority) while I'm here to do so.
With God around, there is no incentive to do any of that. The incentive is actually to do nothing more than follow the rules until I die, and get taken up. Doing anything other than what it says in the rule book gives me chances to accidentally sin, and I wouldn't want that hanging over me, no matter how much I try to repent.
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2003 : 07:51:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Actually, it's quite obvious this site is biased. And I haven't seen anything on the site which claims otherwise. I make no apologies for my pro-evidence bias, for example. What's sad is that Creation88 thought he would find unbiased opinions here - people who truly haven't "taken a side" on this issue, one way or another. He certainly isn't unbiased, why should he expect anyone else to be?
Actually, Dave W., I was taking bias to mean 'prejudice'-- that is, 'a judgement formed before due examination or consideration; a premature or hasty judgement'. But you're right that bias can just mean having a certain bent or leaning.
And then, it's also funny (not funny ha-ha, but funny strange) that he apparently has only heard the word in its participial adjective form of 'biased' and thus used that (spelled wrong) in place of the noun 'bias'. |
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2003 : 07:58:19 [Permalink]
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Filthy, thanks for the welcome!
C88....
I'm glad you shared your stories. I love reading about how when people are down, kind people reach out to help us. I say this without condescenscion...I believe in love and hope.
But.
Have you ever been sitting at home watching television, and suddenly the phone and the doorbell ring at the exact same time? You get up, laugh, and stagger around for a moment, wondering which to answer first. You think the proverbial "what-are-the-chances" thing to yourself--but you don't think that the doorbell made the phone ring, or vice versa. Right?
That's what coincidence means to me, and that's the idea that popped into my head when reading your stories.
The world is filled with inexplicable happenings (or things we don't know the explanation for YET.) Christians tend to atribute the inexplicable to God. Skeptics instead offer logic, statistics, and, well, LOL, skepticism.
I thought about your bill story, too. You know, I've never had exactly $500 in bills. I rarely receive bills in round numbers. My phone bill is generally something like $49.88; cable is $36.74; electricity is $65.96....get my drift? Can you see that the $500 story might--MIGHT--have been embelished to prove a point?
C88, if you take nothing else from us here, please take a grain of tolerance for agnostics, atheists, and others who believe differently from you. I promise it will make you a better person--and maybe even a better Christian. Your faith can be unshakeable, yet you can still understand that others don't share it--and that's OK.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2003 : 08:19:58 [Permalink]
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Did you ever hear of a missionary society? I don't know how it is today, but back in the forties and fifties it seemed that every church was involved in one. Some times individuasls would start one. They'd sponser anywhere from one to several missionaries, scattered around the world. The stipend given the missionaries was not a lot (I didn't say stingy). And the societies kept close track of them.
I think there's a good chance the lady in question was a member.
By the by, 12 1/2 is not an uncommon shoe size, nor is any half-size. I wore this size for many years, until my right foot was smashed. Now, I have to wear 13.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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