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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
 Posted - 11/03/2003 : 12:24:38 [Permalink]
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Okay, if you're saying that atheists don't do good things, I'll agree with you. PEOPLE do good things. If what they do is based on a negative, then what they do is colored by that negative. Religion is a negative. Or more properly, theism and spiritualism. Theism says that there is something so fundamentally wrong with reality that we must create god(s), etc. in order to give it (and people) worth. Can someone do something good and still have stupid ideas? Yes. Can one put one's own stupid ideas to the side and do something good? Yes. If theism is a 'tool' then that tool is at least neutral. One can do 'good' with a hammer, one can do 'bad' with a hammer. Theism is not neutral, it is a negative.
What you are referring to is a discussion of AA. AA is a negative. If people do well within the structures of AA, it is not because of the principles of AA. They do no one any good. At best, AA can only claim about 5% success rate, and that might as well be zero. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 11/03/2003 12:26:28 |
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2003 : 12:41:36 [Permalink]
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Please explain to me how helping others is colored by the 'negative' of theism. The only example I can think of is/are the agencies who require you to sit through a Christian sermon before they feed you or help you--which I think is wrong and self-serving.
Hungry people are fed by Christians. They are fed no better or worse by atheists. Cheese tastes the same and has the same nutritional value whether or not it's given to you by a theist or an atheist.
I fail to see how the good, hard work of the Christians I knew at that agency is somehow less good because of their beliefs (or because of the actions of theists 5,000 years ago.)
If, as the Dalai Lama has said, the purpose in life is to seek happiness, then more power to the happy Christians. Even the happy delusional Christians.  |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2003 : 12:45:52 [Permalink]
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Hungry people are fed by people. People choose their religions based upon their beliefs about themselves and the world around them. Theism is a negative belief. If someone does something from a negative belief, then that colors what they do. How? I'll have to ponder that if you really don't see that.
One good example might be the Dalai Lama himself. He is the representative of a very brutal theocracy. He didn't have much of an opportunity to continue that brutal theocracy, but it is a good example of how religion colors things. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2003 : 13:13:53 [Permalink]
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It colors it--IN YOUR OPINION. As I said, theistic beliefs do not alter the nutritional value of food, or cause homes built by Habitat for Humanity to suddenly crumble on their foundations. So in many cases, they do not alter the physical reality of what was done.
It's only colored negatively if you choose to see it that way. I refuse to live in that dark a headspace, regardless of how skeptical or even cynical I feel at times. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2003 : 13:25:12 [Permalink]
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Well, if you build me a house and force me to live in it as a slave, that doesn't change the house, but it does change the circumstances around the house.
Nor does it mean that atheists are less screwed up in their thinking than theists necessarily. However, theism itself is a negative. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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PruplePanther
Skeptic Friend
USA
79 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2003 : 18:41:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
They I hate.
It's not nice to hate, Snake. You'll be sorry in the long run. |
"If I don't know where we are, I can't plot a course home." Major Carter, SG-1 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9696 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2003 : 23:28:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by On fire for Christ
'Some of my best friends are Jews' Gimme a break.
One of my best friends is Christian. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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