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steinhenge
Skeptic Friend
USA
69 Posts |
 Posted - 07/24/2003 : 04:56:50 [Permalink]
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Isn't a football-themed parade pretty much the same thing as a Gay Pride parade anyway? I mean, it's all just guys in tight pants grabbing each other's asses, trying to get the "ball" and jumping on each other in great big piles.
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2003 : 05:58:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Isn't a football-themed parade pretty much the same thing as a Gay Pride parade anyway? I mean, it's all just guys in tight pants grabbing each other's asses, trying to get the "ball" and jumping on each other in great big piles.
Cute, witty and very stereotypical.
Posted by Snake
quote:
how many times have you heard that a city was burned and run lawless during a gay parade
Two gay riots come to mind for me; Stonewall, and the aftermath of the murder of Harvey Milk in San Francisco. Gay folks seem like a pretty peaceful crowd in general. Eh, Snake? Plus, we have a little thing called 'Southern Decadence' down here, and all the violence seems to be among the different groups of protestors.
Posted by Darwin Storm quote:
anything involving sperm and the egg usually has something to do with sex.
Is that a requirement? If so, I guess Clinton was right. He never did have sex with that woman!
Posted by Snake quote:
At lesast watching a parade where guys are imaginative to come up with some wonderful and colorful costumes is fun.
Well, I kinda like the Dykes on Bikes...But those Log Cabin boys sure are boring!
Posted by PenyPrity quote:
He is not bi-sexual in the least.
Not in the least, hunh? Not even a little? Does he self-identify as "not bisexual in the least'?
Posted by Fireballin' quote:
I couldn't care less about the whole homosexual debate....
Hmmm...then why all the fuss? Because they get in your way? I usually keep track of where the Klan marches are, and make sure I'm somewhere else. And I do care about the racism debate!
There's more, but Dena's home, and I gotta go...Maybe later--This is so much fun  |
"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2003 : 07:15:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
It is important to note the difference between homosexual, heterosexual, and bisexual.
I kinda don't fit into any of those categories depending on whose eyes you are looking through. And no, I'm not being funny now.
Why can't people just be people? Each individuals preferance (choice or what ever the hell anyone wants to call it) is his own and no one elses business.
The classes of conduct is for the biologic implications and not meant as a value judgement. I am not classing people. I am classing conduct which is unique to the first two terms and shared by the third. The previous poster said that thier brother had produced offspring and was a homosexual. For some reason they believed that this somehow invalidated the statement I made concerning homosexual conduct (i.e. having a sexual partner of the same sex) not being able to produce offspring.
I could give a shit less on how you conduct your own private sexuality. That is truely your business and none of mine as long as it involves only consenting adults.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2003 : 07:30:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Penyprity
quote:
The statement was "engages in conduct which has no chance of producing offspring". Are you suggesting that the child was produced by homosexual conduct? If so, call up every book of records and the scientific community.
"engages in conduct" is a broad statement. Obviously, he did engage in conduct that produced offspring and I know for a fact he didn't have sex with a woman. He is not bi-sexual in the least. Being gay does not negate the possibility of offspring. Perhaps what you wanted to say was that engaging in same gender sex does not produce offspring. I believe that would be more correct.
So, I guess I am suggesting that a child was produced by homosexual conduct. But in this case that homosexual conduct was more scientific than sexual.
quote:
It is important to note the difference between homosexual, heterosexual, and bisexual. Homosexual means a partner of the same sex. Heterosexual means a partner of the opposite sex. And bisexual means using both homosexual and heterosexual conduct.
Thanks for the lesson, but I already knew all that. 
Silly me, I thought you were talking about a natural process of sexual reproduction, not artifical reproduction. It is also important to note that the child is not a product of homosexual conduct but of modern medicine. Purely homosexual conduct is only sexual as it is part of the classification. Anyone can engage modern medicine to artifically produce offspring. It is not unique to homosexuality or heterosexuality. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Computer Org
Skeptic Friend
392 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2003 : 10:12:06 [Permalink]
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Other than the (highly) questionable "contribution" at the top of page one, I've had naught to say on this topic (--and probably still don't  ).
"Homosexual", "hetrosexual", "bisexual": All either a matter of choice-of-behaviour or some sort of genetic pre-disposition; but what about that part of the population which is born with BOTH genders?
I used to think that these folk were a miniscule percentage----maybe one in 10,000----but it seems that the true percentage is in the teens (---IIRC, something like 17% of births have mixed gender-characteristics---) and that the baby-doctors just DECIDED and, according to what seemed to be most surgically convenient, did the needed "cosmetic surgury" to make the baby seem to be either a boy or a girl. (GASP!! Could this REALLY describe "Born in the U.S.A."--- a place founded on individual LIBERTY???)
What about THESE people? "Cosmetic surgury" changes nothing. What are they? Homosexual? Hetrosexual? Bisexual? And why, after nearly 3 pages, has no one even mentioned them?
(Ahem. Was that a rant?  )
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Do thou amend thy face, and I'll amend my life. --Falstaff |
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Penyprity
Skeptic Friend
64 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2003 : 20:13:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
quote:
Originally posted by Penyprity
quote:
The statement was "engages in conduct which has no chance of producing offspring". Are you suggesting that the child was produced by homosexual conduct? If so, call up every book of records and the scientific community.
"engages in conduct" is a broad statement. Obviously, he did engage in conduct that produced offspring and I know for a fact he didn't have sex with a woman. He is not bi-sexual in the least. Being gay does not negate the possibility of offspring. Perhaps what you wanted to say was that engaging in same gender sex does not produce offspring. I believe that would be more correct.
So, I guess I am suggesting that a child was produced by homosexual conduct. But in this case that homosexual conduct was more scientific than sexual.
quote:
It is important to note the difference between homosexual, heterosexual, and bisexual. Homosexual means a partner of the same sex. Heterosexual means a partner of the opposite sex. And bisexual means using both homosexual and heterosexual conduct.
Thanks for the lesson, but I already knew all that.
Silly me, I thought you were talking about a natural process of sexual reproduction, not artifical reproduction. It is also important to note that the child is not a product of homosexual conduct but of modern medicine. Purely homosexual conduct is only sexual as it is part of the classification. Anyone can engage modern medicine to artifically produce offspring. It is not unique to homosexuality or heterosexuality.
Im sorry if you mis-understood my post. I am not necessarily in disagreement with your position, I am questioning your use of the word "conduct". It reminds me of the little kid being scolded for doing something wrong (engaging in unacceptable conduct). Clearly if two men get into bed together, no child could be conceived. I simply disapprove of the word "conduct" for any sexual contact between two consenting adults regardless of sexual orientation.
To creation88...You may not be trying to be a jerk, but your well on your way. |
Make your vote count. Become a supreme court justice......Peny |
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2003 : 04:32:52 [Permalink]
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Posted by Computer Org quote:
"Homosexual", "hetrosexual", "bisexual": All either a matter of choice-of-behaviour or some sort of genetic pre-disposition; but what about that part of the population which is born with BOTH genders?
A couple of good questions here, I think.
The idea that human sexuality is a matter of "choice-of-behaviour or some sort of genetiic pre-disposition" is a debate that will probably go on for a very long time. Personally, I tend to think that the drive to reproduce is mostly a need or desire for sexual release. We have lost through evolution many of our natural cues for sexual arousal, but pretty much think about it all the time, though we can control our responses.
When we do allow ourselves to become aroused, the physical manifestations are most easily releived by completion of the act. Our bodies really don't know, or care, how we find alleviation, just so long as we find it.
Now, I think a myriad of emotional factors come into play, such as what visual cues do we find stimulating, what type of person do we find emotionally compatible, how has our experiences within our environment shaped our thoughts, etc. In other words, I think that our physical state is simply sexual, but our emotional state is shaped by too many factors to ever pin the root of someone's sexuality down to certain finite causes.
We have a choice when concerned with how we will act on our physical responses or feelings, but we do not have a choice on what factors create or cause those feelings. Furthermore, those things that we find arousing often do change, (at the least in intensity), throughout our lives. Perhaps, this is why many people living sexually alternative or divergent lifestyles do not care much for the labels of het, homo and bi. Many just prefer to call themselves sexual.
As for people born of mixed gender, I think only the parents and the doctors can answer that question at birth. I would love to leave that choice to the child once the child understands the consequences of that decision, but I cannot imagine an androgenous child growing up in our society with it's strictly defined rules of gender association.
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"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2003 : 07:09:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Computer Org
Other than the (highly) questionable "contribution" at the top of page one, I've had naught to say on this topic (--and probably still don't ).
"Homosexual", "hetrosexual", "bisexual": All either a matter of choice-of-behaviour or some sort of genetic pre-disposition; but what about that part of the population which is born with BOTH genders?
I used to think that these folk were a miniscule percentage----maybe one in 10,000----but it seems that the true percentage is in the teens (---IIRC, something like 17% of births have mixed gender-characteristics---) and that the baby-doctors just DECIDED and, according to what seemed to be most surgically convenient, did the needed "cosmetic surgury" to make the baby seem to be either a boy or a girl. (GASP!! Could this REALLY describe "Born in the U.S.A."--- a place founded on individual LIBERTY???)
What about THESE people? "Cosmetic surgury" changes nothing. What are they? Homosexual? Hetrosexual? Bisexual? And why, after nearly 3 pages, has no one even mentioned them?
(Ahem. Was that a rant? )
Hermaphrodites are a rather grey area. I was not aware of the high percentages involved. From what I understood, most of the hermaphrodites were sterile. (Has to do with the equipment being malformed or incomplete.)
I believe that noone has mentioned these individuals because creation88 (an obvious troll since they have yet to respond back to this thread at all) started off on the "being gay is a choice" line. Enter in the normal thread drift and you have the string here.
I guess the sexuality of those folks can't be called either way. It's not a subject which I feel I have enough information about to make any sort of opinion. It would have to be on a case by case basis. The factors being equipment assigned by medicine, genetic make up (XX, XY, XXX, or XXY), and psychological needs. Again, I believe that their sexual preference is wholly natural instinct instead of a conscious choice. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Computer Org
Skeptic Friend
392 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2003 : 07:51:17 [Permalink]
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I've heard many times that T. Jefferson once remarked something like quote:
"Better 99 guilty men go free than a single innocent man be punnished."
You wrote, Tim:quote:
I would love to leave that choice to the child once the child understands the consequences of that decision, but I cannot imagine an androgenous child growing up in our society with it's strictly defined rules of gender association. (emphasis added)
I believe in the basic American philosophical sentiments (as in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution) and I concur with Jefferson's harsh assessment of what American Justice should be like.
But where did these perverted "strictly defined rules" in our society originate? Who is it that assumed the authority to define such rules----in utter contradiction of every American value?
Want to know. Really want to know. |
Do thou amend thy face, and I'll amend my life. --Falstaff |
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Computer Org
Skeptic Friend
392 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2003 : 07:59:01 [Permalink]
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Errr. Say there, New Member steinhenge: Your signature readsquote:
"In the land of the pants-less, the speedo-wearing man is King."
I don't know what beaches you frequent but on the ones I go to, it is:quote:
"In the land of the speedo-wearing, the pants-less man is a god." 
(Heh, heh. Hee, hee, hee. Ho, ho, ho!!) (Ahem.) |
Do thou amend thy face, and I'll amend my life. --Falstaff |
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Fireballn
Skeptic Friend
Canada
179 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2003 : 15:29:36 [Permalink]
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Well since nobody gave me an adequate answer to why gay people need a parade, I did a little research to find out.
By David Nava
Why have a Gay Pride Parade? It's a question many straight people might be asking in the next few weeks. Gay people, I believe, inherently, intuitively know why we have a parade. We have a Gay Pride Parade because 25 years ago a bunch of drag queens at a bar called The Stonewall fought back for the first time when the police overstepped the bounds of their authority for the millionth time, thereby launching the Gay Liberation Movement. We have a Gay Pride Parade so that at least for one day in a year we can walk down the streets of where we live and show our numbers for all the world to see. We have a Gay Pride Parade to celebrate our defeat of The Closet, to have a day when we can proclaim, without reservation, who we are and who we love.
So, when do the straight people get their own parade?
When straight people are prevented from marrying the people they choose to marry, precluded from enjoying tax benefits available to married people, then they should have a parade. When straight people are barred from serving their country in the military, then they should have a parade. When straight people are routinely fired from their jobs because of who they love with or live with then they should have a parade. When straight people are blocked from holding sensitive jobs in the government merely because of their sexual orientation, then they should have a parade. When straight people are forbidden to raise their own children or to adopt others, if they so choose, then they should have a parade. When straight people are beaten, harassed and shot at for holding hands in public then I'll march in their parade.
Well its a one sided position.....but a position none the less |
If i were the supreme being, I wouldn't have messed around with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers 8 o'clock day one!
-Time Bandits- |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2003 : 17:38:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Tim
Two gay riots come to mind for me; Stonewall, and the aftermath of the murder of Harvey Milk in San Francisco. Gay folks seem like a pretty peaceful crowd in general. Eh, Snake? Plus, we have a little thing called 'Southern Decadence' down here, and all the violence seems to be among the different groups of protestors.
Some how I don't recall the riot part of that situation in SF. But I do very well remember being outraged and disturbed by what happened. Not to mention how it to this day changed the course of history. Bet Diane is happy.
Perhaps you are being sarcastic with that comment about gays seeming peaceful, not sure but it is the sports people (assuming the larger %age is not gay) that most often go wild with destruction.
What is 'Southern Decadence'?
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2003 : 23:21:52 [Permalink]
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Posted by Fireballin' quote:
So, when do the straight people get their own parade?
I reckon, whenever straight people think they have a good reason to have a parade.
Man, we've got all sorts of parades down here. Seems, we got a little parade for every little local festival that pops up, not to mention all of the national holidays. Man, if I wanted to start another parade called "Straight Chicks Show Off Their Tits," I'd have little trouble. All I'd need is a liscense, and a slow day on Bourbon Street, (Lot's of money helps, too!)
We already have a bunch of parades that could be nicknamed "Straight Guys and Girls Show Their Asses." We call'em Mardi Gras Parades for short. That's when a bunch of often gender segregated drunken assholes put on colorful robes, dance around like crazy people on the backs of tractor trailors decorated with paper mache' and throw stuff at you. It's a blast, too! Every little town has at least one!  And, very telling post, Fireballin'...Thanks
Posted by Snake quote:
Perhaps you are being sarcastic with that comment about gays seeming peaceful
Not at all! In all of my experience in the gay community, and outside of the home, I've never witnessed an act of violence perpetrated by one gay citizen upon another citizen of any sexual orientation. I've heard about only a few.
We may not be gay, but neither do we fall into the strict confines of the straight community. We often feel more comfortable in Gay clubs, and the only resistance we've ever found was from a very few buzz cut dykes. Even though many 'Queer' folk may consider us fense sitters and closeted homos reaping the benefits of a hetero society, we are neither.
We are not gay, but do have several very close friends and family members that are. Neither are we straight. To make things simple, there are three of us in a very intimate relationship. We have close political and social ties to the gay and lesbian communities, though we still face limited condemnation from both sides of the monogamy camps.
quote:
What is 'Southern Decadence'?
http://www.southerndecadence.com/
Have fun! |
"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2003 : 00:40:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Tim
Posted by Fireballin' quote:
So, when do the straight people get their own parade?
I reckon, whenever straight people think they have a good reason to have a parade. http://www.southerndecadence.com/
I guess Southndecadence is some sort of celebration but I"m not sure for what.
Speaking of having a good reason to have a parade anytime, I'm for that. Anything for a good time.
quote:
when do the straight people get their own parade?
Who cares if gays have a parade or anyone else. As long as anyone, as you said is allowed to do it. My objection is that certain groups are singled out as if they are more special than anyone else. I'm talking about minoities and women. For example, the 1st human (happened to be a man) in space was a great feat.....why does the 1st woman get an honor too. Man or woman the 1st human was IT, you don't get an award because the gender was different.
So who ever wants a parade can have one, just don't make it because there's supposed to be a differance between one group or another. Schools are choosing people to get in so they will have 'diversity', the world is supposed to be tolerant and we are not supposed to be prejudice against anyone, so why point out the differences? Just have fun and let everyone join in as if there's no reason to feel different.
No more womens studies classes or black, Hispanic or Asian studies either. History is history, you can't single out only one part to be special.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2003 : 04:41:41 [Permalink]
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| That's the point. The history that I got as a kid was the history of how great white people are. There is a lot of singling out and leaving out. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 07/27/2003 04:45:17 |
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