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byhisgrace88
Formerly "creation88"
USA
166 Posts |
 Posted - 10/21/2003 : 18:04:43
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I'm sure most of you are familier with the law of Entropy. I f you aren't, it basicly says that everything goes from order to dis-order, complexity to decay from hot to cold.
Evolution completly goes against this law of thermodynamics. I mean think about it. In evolution, atoms allegedly self produce amino acids, amino acids auto organize amoebas, amoebas urn into apes, and apes turn into astronauts.
Mathmatician and physicist, Sir Arthur Eddington demonstrated that exactly the opposite is true: The energy of the universe irraversably flows from hot to cold bodies. The sun burns up billions of tons of hydrogen each second, stars burn out, and species eventually become extinct. More and more each day I start to think, that evolution should be called science FICTION, not just science.
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Indeed, if we consider the unblushing promises of reward and the staggering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that Our Lord finds our desire, not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.-- C.S. Lewis |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2003 : 18:49:33 [Permalink]
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Stop reading Answers in Genesis and listening to Dr Dino,
Read more at Five Major Misconceptions about Evolution: Evolution violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics
This argument has been done to death, get with it C88 and stop sprouting the same old crap. |
Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2003 : 18:56:14 [Permalink]
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And a bit more here...
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CF/CF001_4.html
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"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2003 : 19:03:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Creation88Evolution completly goes against this law of thermodynamics.
quote:
Tommy Huxley:
Ninety-nine percent of ALL the e-mail we get from creationists boasts that evolution is impossible because "evolution violates the second law of thermodynamics!" And I'm getting SICK of hearing that claim.
It's not only false, but the very people who make this argument blatantly reveal that they don't know what they're talking about! Since this argument "sounds" technically intimidating, they assume that we're as ignorant as they are.
Read the rest at:
http://www.skepticfriends.org/forum/showquestion.asp?faq=7&fldAuto=81
There is also this:
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CF/CF001_2.html |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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tw101356
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2003 : 21:19:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by creation88
I'm sure most of you are familier with the law of Entropy. I f you aren't, it basicly says that everything goes from order to dis-order, complexity to decay from hot to cold.
Evolution completly goes against this law of thermodynamics. I mean think about it. In evolution, atoms allegedly self produce amino acids, amino acids auto organize amoebas, amoebas urn into apes, and apes turn into astronauts.
A human being also goes against this law of thermodynamics, since a fertilized egg (one cell) grow into an embryo (multi-cell) which becomes an infant at childbirth and then grow into an adult. An adult is certainly more ordered than a cell.
This proves that your oversimplified 2nd Law of Thermodyamics is incorrect. I suggest that you look up the correct law and learn what a closed system is.
- TW
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- TW
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2003 : 10:22:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by creation88
Evolution completly goes against this law of thermodynamics.
No, it doesn't.
quote:
I mean think about it.
I've done it several times before, but I could do it again.
<...thinking...thinking...thinking...done.>
Ok, I am still convinced that evolution does not go against the laws of thermodynamics. But i'm starting to understand why you do.
quote:
Mathmatician and physicist, Sir Arthur Eddington demonstrated that exactly the opposite is true: The energy of the universe irraversably flows from hot to cold bodies. The sun burns up billions of tons of hydrogen each second, stars burn out, and species eventually become extinct. More and more each day I start to think, that evolution should be called science FICTION, not just science.
What does Sir Arthur Eddington have to do with abiogenesis or biology? He was an astronomer and physicist. He never demonstrated that thermodynamics makes evolution impossible. Though he did extensive and highly acclaimed studies of the inner workings of stars, I fail to see the connection. Please let me know how you draw this conclusion.
quote:
In evolution, atoms allegedly self produce amino acids, amino acids auto organize amoebas, amoebas urn into apes, and apes turn into astronauts.
Your claim shows that you have little or no clue what the law of thermodynamics is all about. The same goes for evolution.
Whoever is teaching you all these things about Evolution and Thermodynamics is lying to you. The alternative is that he/she knows Jack-Shit about it, and has decided to teach you that instead/anyway (which is just as dishonest and immoral).
Let me give you some piece of good advice:
You seem to have a problem making sense of Entropy and Evolution going hand-in-hand. Instead of broadcasting your disbelif in it, and spewing out such things as "Darwin was a racist", and "evolution should be called science FICTION, not just science"
why don't just ask how things works?
You know, some of us have univsersity studies behind us, and would gladly help to sort stuff out for you.
This require that you have an open mind, and that you are willing to accept the fact that you don't know quite as much as you thought you did, but most importantly:
You need to ask.
Pose questions, and be prepared that the answer might not always be what you expected (this is a concept you should be familliar with).
Some of these things are very hard to explain without immediate feedback. I'm always trying to be on the chat, whenever my job allows it. I get home from work about 5:30 GMT, and if the chat is up, I'll be there. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2003 : 10:47:00 [Permalink]
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I beleive creation88 said that he is a teenager, I am guessing the 88 is his birth year. It is sad to see the same old wrong arguments used. But it is even sadder to see the utter lack of understanding of physics.
A much more eloquent person than me, Vice-president Quail, once said, "It is a shame for one to loose his mind, or for one to never have a mind at all, isn't that true!"
Creation88, read (not just the Bible), listen (to all points), and learn. Make up your own mind, don't be a parrot. |
If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2003 : 10:50:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Whoever is teaching you all these things about Evolution and Thermodynamics is lying to you. The alternative is that he/she knows Jack-Shit about it, and has decided to teach you that instead/anyway (which is just as dishonest and immoral).
I prefer the term Jack Chick instead of Jack Shit. It's more indicative of C88's position. The biggest problem I've seen is that all the people learning this stuff know nothing but Jack Chick about the subject.
http://www.chick.com/
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0055/0055%5F01.asp
Aha! Found the Swedish version!
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0891/0891_01.asp
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
| Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 10/22/2003 11:01:12 |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2003 : 10:59:02 [Permalink]
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Creation88, I pumped up my bicycle tire yesterday. I put a bunch of Nitrogen and Oxygen molecules in a more organized state than when they were zipping around in the atmosphere. Did I violate the "law of entropy"? No, because I increased the entropy of the universe. I ineffeciently used my muscles, and waste heat was produced. My pump was ineffecient and more waste heat was produced from the friction of the pump as well as from the compression of the gas.
Here is a good way to look at the laws of Thermodynamics.
1. You can't get something from nothing.
2. The best you can do is break even.
3. You can only break even at absolute zero. |
If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2003 : 11:09:31 [Permalink]
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Dancer wrote
quote:
I prefer the term Jack Chick instead of Jack Shit. It's more indicative of C88's position. The biggest problem I've seen is that all the people learning this stuff know nothing but Jack Chick about the subject.
I just looked at a lovely little cartoon on Chick Heads site that indicated God will send anybody to Hell that violates even one of the 10 commandments. That means every christian that does not hold Saturday as a holy day will go to Hell. Well thats just FREAKING GREAT! Now not only do I go to hell, but a bunch of christians are going to be there preaching at me too. |
If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2003 : 11:29:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
I prefer the term Jack Chick instead of Jack Shit. It's more indicative of C88's position. The biggest problem I've seen is that all the people learning this stuff know nothing but Jack Chick about the subject.
http://www.chick.com/
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0055/0055%5F01.asp
Aha! Found the Swedish version!
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0891/0891_01.asp
Oh, MAN! Look what you just did. What if Creation88 reads it and actually believe it's right?
How I hate those comic-strips.
I can't tell if that site is for real, or a satirical piece made for a good laugh. (...God grant me the wisdom to tell them apart...)
Given the seriousness of the contents, impressionable people might actually believe it. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2003 : 12:26:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
I prefer the term Jack Chick instead of Jack Shit. It's more indicative of C88's position. The biggest problem I've seen is that all the people learning this stuff know nothing but Jack Chick about the subject.
http://www.chick.com/
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0055/0055%5F01.asp
Aha! Found the Swedish version!
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0891/0891_01.asp
Oh, MAN! Look what you just did. What if Creation88 reads it and actually believe it's right?
How I hate those comic-strips.
I can't tell if that site is for real, or a satirical piece made for a good laugh. (...God grant me the wisdom to tell them apart...)
Given the seriousness of the contents, impressionable people might actually believe it.
How do we know that C88 didn't get it from here in the first place.
Sadly, the site is for real. Jack Chick has been at it for quite some time. This is his official web presence. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2003 : 13:56:31 [Permalink]
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Chick is as serious and as aggravating as a dose of syphilis. And he has indeed, been around like forever. And, like a chancre, he is rather ugly and a bit nauseating. I've been given to understand that he has some connection to Kent Hovind, another, handsome poster boy for retroactive birth control. I've read that Hovind did some or all of the writing on that comic epic; 'Big Daddy'. But, that could be just another of 'Dr. Dino's' fantasies. Or Chick's -- whodahell knows?
The Second Law argument has been beaten to death, both here and elsewhere. The YEC claims have been shot down, like mallards in October, by people who have no need to guess, but know. The links provided eariler explain nicely. More can be found if required.
C'88, do study your arguments carefully before putting them forth. Here, while we might not have seen it all, we've seen one hell of a lot of it. 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2003 : 15:24:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
I've been given to understand that he has some connection to Kent Hovind, another, handsome poster boy for retroactive birth control.
I've read some about this Kent Hotwind... through links I found around the same time I joined Skeptic Friends. I was unimpressed by his $100000 "challenge" to prove evolution. With the rules of the contest so obviously made to make the challenge impossible to win...
quote:
I've read that Hovind did some or all of the writing on that comic epic; 'Big Daddy'. But, that could be just another of 'Dr. Dino's' fantasies. Or Chick's -- whodahell knows?
The comical strip made a reference to one of Hovind's work.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2003 : 17:54:18 [Permalink]
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Here's a pretty good low-down on everybody's farorite lunitic:
http://www.geocities.com/kenthovind/
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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byhisgrace88
Formerly "creation88"
USA
166 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2003 : 21:02:17 [Permalink]
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Furshur: Here is a good way to look at the laws of Thermodynamics.
1. You can't get something from nothing.
2. The best you can do is break even.
3. You can only break even at absolute zero.
1. My point exactly
2. And your saying that evolution hase not improved. It's only broken even.
3.Please tell me what this one means haha.
And also, please stop telling me to make up my own mind. While I have mentors in my life, I as in MYSELF made up my mind on this matter and many others that I believe strongly in. |
Indeed, if we consider the unblushing promises of reward and the staggering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that Our Lord finds our desire, not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.-- C.S. Lewis |
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