|
|
|
On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
 Posted - 11/17/2003 : 10:39:40 [Permalink]
|
| Whatever that was supposed to mean. Anyway, just because I think you need to be Christian to go to heaven doesnt mean I can't tolerate other religions. GO on attacking me if you like, leave the real bigots alone, they aren't such easy targets apparently, because they have more posts than me. |
 |
 |
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2003 : 11:01:40 [Permalink]
|
O.f.f. Christ wrote:quote:
Anyway, just because I think you need to be Christian to go to heaven doesnt mean I can't tolerate other religions.
No, but it makes me wonder why you refuse to answer a simple question: what is it about evolution that either (A) denies your personal belief in your personal God, or (B) makes it necessarily a tool of Satan?
Between the two, this will be the third time I've asked you this question.
quote:
GO on attacking me if you like, leave the real bigots alone, they aren't such easy targets apparently, because they have more posts than me.
Nice smokescreen. What "real bigots" do or what kind of response they receive doesn't have much of anything to do with how you are treated, does it? After all, you're not a "real bigot," so your complaints (and denial of the facts in that matter) appear to be nothing more than an attempt to change the focus of this discussion away from you. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2003 : 11:50:54 [Permalink]
|
You can "tolerate" other religions, but those PEOPLE who don't believe as you do are condemned to an eternity of torture. That is not being accepting of yourself or anyone else.
quote:
Originally posted by On fire for Christ
Whatever that was supposed to mean. Anyway, just because I think you need to be Christian to go to heaven doesnt mean I can't tolerate other religions. GO on attacking me if you like, leave the real bigots alone, they aren't such easy targets apparently, because they have more posts than me.
|
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
|
|
|
|
Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2003 : 14:19:45 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by On fire for Christ
Whatever that was supposed to mean. Anyway, just because I think you need to be Christian to go to heaven doesnt mean I can't tolerate other religions. GO on attacking me if you like, leave the real bigots alone, they aren't such easy targets apparently, because they have more posts than me.
Again, I have to ask. Since Snake's comments were opposed, how is this indicative of this board tolerating racists? You keep claiming that you are being persecuted because you have fewer posts than Snake, but are unable to give any sort of support for your contention.
I'm not judging your religion. I am judging your logical processes.
Tangetal evolution/creationism sub-thread: Since evolution describes the mechanism for change and makes no comment on religion, it cannot logically be an attack on your religion. The Bible says merely that God caused creation to happen. It is not specific on methodology or timeframe.
I have had this particular exchange of evolution (oftentimes deliberately mispelled Evilution to invoke a prejudical language fallacy) several times. I have drawn upon my reading of the Bible and have re-read pertinent sections of the Bible to ensure that my position was defensable as well as re-reading evolutionary theory. This line of reasoning seems endemic to the Young Earth Creationist movement. A movement which has serious logical and factual errors from the perview of science and the Bible.
Spirituality is not under attack by science. Indeed, it is not even referenced. When individuals make claims on the observable world through religious dogma which is unsupported by their religious document, then science comes into play to describe phenomenon, systems, and methodologies of change. If those descriptions, based on observations, do not mesh with the physical laws proposed by religious dogma, the dogma has to prove why science is wrong.
Evolution is a theory. Not an absolute fact. It is our best analysis of how things change over time. So far, it has not had anything that solidly refuted any part of it. Sections of it have been refined over the years based on more accurate measurements and more observations. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
| Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 11/17/2003 14:25:39 |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
|
|
Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2003 : 19:22:04 [Permalink]
|
OFFC, I'm glad you tolerate other religions. I just assumed that since you felt non-Christians were going to hell, that you were intolerant. That idea kinda sounds intolerant, right?
I'm agnostic; I don't see it outside the realm of possibility that God exists. If a God does exist, I strongly suspect that he/she/it/whatever could be reached via many paths, including Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, etc. I don't understand the idea that one religion has it right and all others are therefore wrong.
You've found a way that works for you. More power to you in that. My only request (and my axe to grind) is that you show tolerance and compassion for others who believe differently...and keep yer mitts off my government.  |
|
|
|
On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2003 : 20:26:02 [Permalink]
|
"You can "tolerate" other religions, but those PEOPLE who don't believe as you do are condemned to an eternity of torture. That is not being accepting of yourself or anyone else"
You're just trolling now. I refuse to subscribe to the theory that having beliefs is inherently 'intolerant' or 'prejudice' or whatever your sad little argument has warped into. I'm not going to change my faith just so it sounds more pleasant and there is less hell-fire. This is about saving souls not being politically correct. Why don't you try being more tolerant for once? Instead of hounding me for not sharing YOUR beliefs.
"No, but it makes me wonder why you refuse to answer a simple question: what is it about evolution that either (A) denies your personal belief in your personal God, or (B) makes it necessarily a tool of Satan?
Between the two, this will be the third time I've asked you this question."
Yeah isn't it pretty obvious. God created man in his own image, he didn't start a biogenesis that he knew one day would evolve into his own image. Why go to such lengths to make me answer this question anyway? Isn't my response going to be quite predictable and obvious?
And Renae quit dreaming. All those religions can't be right, they contradict eachother too much. |
|
| Edited by - On fire for Christ on 11/17/2003 20:27:02 |
|
|
|
Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2003 : 21:26:24 [Permalink]
|
If only one of those religions is "right", then which one? How do you know for sure?
Do you also believe there's only one right way to be? That there's a cosmic chart somewhere dictating how much money we should be earning at each age; how extraverted we should be; how many children we should have; how ambitious we should be, etc? Or do you believe, as I do, that we all have our own paths, as individuals?
If you can accept that we all have different dreams and values and priorities in our lives, why is it so hard for you to accept that we can have different religious beliefs? |
|
|
|
@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2003 : 21:46:59 [Permalink]
|
quote:
If you can accept that we all have different dreams and values and priorities in our lives, why is it so hard for you to accept that we can have different religious beliefs?
Personally, I don't think OFFC can accept anything of the sort. OFFC seems to think acceptance is a one-way street which is par for the course with anyone so certain of their truth.
@tomic |
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
|
|
|
On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2003 : 02:31:51 [Permalink]
|
Whatever, you seem to think its never OK to be sure of you belief system unless you're an atheist. You're a bunch of hypocrites. I'm intolerant and a fundimentalist for having a religion and voicing it, yet you aren't for not having one and constantly running me into the ground just because I don't conform with you.
"Personally, I don't think OFFC can accept anything of the sort. OFFC seems to think acceptance is a one-way street which is par for the course with anyone so certain of their truth."
I can't accept other religions because I'm sure of my own? Get some perspective please, are you sure of what YOU believe in? Very convenient to use one set of rules for me and another for yourself isn't it?
I can't accept anything, I'm intolerant, I'm prejudice anything else you want to add to the list? Get over yourselves. The only intolerance I see here is coming from you, refusing to tolerate the fact I have Christian beliefs. I believe Christianity to be the Truth. Well EXCUSE ME. Why else would I be a Christian? Sorry maybe if I was more unsure that would make me a better more tolerant person? You have no idea what I'm like as a person, I'm not the one stereotyping here.
Why is it atheists consider themselves so tolerant? All I see here is a bunch of people lynching me because I don't agree with them. You're like vultures swooping in with your little insults without even backing them up.
"If you can accept that we all have different dreams and values and priorities in our lives, why is it so hard for you to accept that we can have different religious beliefs?"
Where does it say I don't tolerate other beliefs? I thought I made it abundantly clear that I did. Maybe you should read MY posts and not the people stereotyping me. |
|
|
|
|
Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2003 : 06:50:57 [Permalink]
|
OFFC, I've been civil and respectful toward you. I have carefully read your responses and I'm honestly curious about your viewpoint. You're the one getting hostile.
If you want complete acceptance of religious dogma, you can get that at your church. Here, though, we're skeptics. So you get questions and debate. If that isn't what you're looking for, and you're only here to make us see The Light, then you're apt to get frustrated, which it sounds like you are.
You said that all religions couldn't be right because they contradict each other. You believe that your religion is The Right One. This is what you said. I asked a reasonable question: How can you be sure? And I posited a reasonable idea: That all religions could be equally valid and lead to the same place--which sounds to me a lot more tolerant than your viewpoint.
No, I'm not terribly sure of many of the things I believe in--that comes with my natural skepticism. I'm even sometimes skeptical of my skepticism. But I have a feeling you really don't get this concept. Which is why you need to read here MORE.  |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2003 : 07:54:06 [Permalink]
|
O.f.f. Christ wrote:quote:
Yeah isn't it pretty obvious. God created man in his own image, he didn't start a biogenesis that he knew one day would evolve into his own image. Why go to such lengths to make me answer this question anyway? Isn't my response going to be quite predictable and obvious?
Because I was giving you the opportunity to answer a question, instead of treating you like the stereotype you so despise.
Good grief. You feel attacked for stating your beliefs, yet when someone tries to treat you with some amount of respect - by asking you to answer instead of making an assumption about your answer - you go and villify yourself by calling your own response "predictable and obvious." Is there any way that you'll enter into a discussion here without asking people to pity you?
Again:quote:
God created man in his own image, he didn't start a biogenesis that he knew one day would evolve into his own image.
Why not? Claiming to know the mind of God is a sin, is it not? God is ineffable, is he not? If these are not the "rules" as you know them, and instead you subscribe to a different set of basic premises, please let us all know.
Later on, you wrote:quote:
Why is it atheists consider themselves so tolerant? All I see here is a bunch of people lynching me because I don't agree with them. You're like vultures swooping in with your little insults without even backing them up.
Well, this is rather disingenuous. If I remember correctly, one of your first posts here did nothing but label evolution as a tool of Satan. You were setting yourself up to be crucified, and now you're complaining about how much the nails hurt. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2003 : 08:08:28 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by On fire for Christ
And Renae quit dreaming. All those religions can't be right, they contradict each other too much.
I have studied Islam, Judaism, Buddhaism, Hindi, Christianity, and Wicca. This is the most inaccurate sack of crap I've read in a while. The major tenets are nearly identical to one another. Reverence for God, live a moral life, don't murder people, respect your parents, etc. The wording is different as well as the historical context that the stories exist in. The thrust of the tenets remains the same.
These tenets, with the obvious exception of reverence for God, are identical to the atheist philosophy. They all can be right because "right" is determined by the practioner. Religion and philosophy are deeply personal journeys. If you even ask around your church, you will find that differences in beliefs occur from person to person. If they don't, don't drink the Kool-aid. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
| Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 11/18/2003 08:16:54 |
|
|
|
Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2003 : 08:13:21 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Evolution is a Fact and a Theory.
I always think of evolution as being the theory of the mechanism of change for an observed phenomenon. The observed phenomenon is that species change over time. I fall into the category of computer geek and do not draw the distinction that biologists do.
Thanks for the informative link. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2003 : 17:17:38 [Permalink]
|
Valiant Dancer wrote:quote:
I always think of evolution as being the theory of the mechanism of change for an observed phenomenon. The observed phenomenon is that species change over time.
Which is evolution, by definition. Evolution is a change in alleles in a population over time. The "theory of evolution" is the malleable set of hypotheses that describe how or why those changes occur. The "fact of evolution" is that it happens, as we can see and measure.quote:
I fall into the category of computer geek and do not draw the distinction that biologists do.
I'm a computer geek, myself, but have learned, through my self-education about psoriasis, that if I'm going to discuss biology, I'd better learn to use the terms that biologists use, in the same way that they use them. Otherwise, I'd be discussing some sort of pseudo-biology, which even biologists wouldn't understand.quote:
Thanks for the informative link.
At your service! |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
