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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
 Posted - 01/15/2004 : 14:24:02
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I think it is time for some of the christian leaders to get together and revise the bible. Skeptics love to point out it's contradictions and absurdities.
Even the fundementalists agree that many parts of the bible are not applicable anymore. The christians in general and even the fundementalist all agree to ignore the bible's stance on slavery, women in church, and a whole host of other points. The christians, when discussing their religion simply skirt the issue.
Why not 'fix' the bible and make it reflective of the actual beliefs of the church?
It's not like it hasn't gone through other revisions.
I know this will stir up religious christians, but I really am serious, I mean how can you have the most holy religious text condoning slavery and imploring slaves to be obediant?
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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ivanisavich
Skeptic Friend
67 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2004 : 09:51:15 [Permalink]
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Great site Dave!
quote:
"if somebody with a birth defect doesn't ask Jesus Christ to cover his sin-he'll burn in Hell with everyone else who hasn't...(homo's, preachers, liars)"
quote:
"then if no creator then how can their be a creation? Even in your theory the Molecules Collided....wouldnt that in theory make the molecules the creator?"
quote:
"Hey Zulu, dump a gallon of gas over your head; and light yourself on fire... I think you will find that after your death; this was good practice for your soul."
quote:
"Fact: Reptiles never stop growing! Fact:before the flood Peaple lived to be over 900(so how big do you soppose Reptiles would get?)"
quote:
"If there is anyone I could think of in which I would spit on, it is a member of the aclu! I can't even capitalize their initials just as I can't and won't capitalize the s in satan!!!"
Oh man...what a good laugh!  |
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hippy4christ
Skeptic Friend
193 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2004 : 12:33:07 [Permalink]
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Furshur:
I don't know if I fall into the mold of a fundamentalist, but here's an ultraconservitve veiwpoint for you: We believe that
1) There actually is a god
2) The Bible is message to humanity from Him
3) Therefore, the Bible is our moral standard, not ourselves
4) Therefore, we don't try to revise the Bible to suit our current moral beliefs, we revise the Bible so that it is closest to what was actually written down by the authors.
As to the individual issues you brought up:
Slavery: I'm under the impression that the New Testament doesn't condone slavery, I can bring forth verses next time. But even in the Old Testament, slaves had rights. They had the right to rest on the Sabbath (Exodus 20:10) and if they were beaten and lost an eye or tooth they would go free (Exodus 21:26, 27). As to wives being submitted to their husband, that doesn't mean that all women are under men, or that women aren't equal with men. Woman whoes dad has died and isn't married has the same rights as a man. Even though a wife should submit to her husband, that doesn't mean she isn't a person as much as he is. That simply means that he has the executive authority in households. Most marital strife comes from two people trying to get their own way. A husband very well may abuse his authority over the wife, and if he does he'll be judged for it.
Hippy |
Faith is believing what you are told, whether it's by a priest or a scientist. A person's scientific beliefs are ones based on personal observation and experimentation.
Lists of Logical Fallacies |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2004 : 16:02:23 [Permalink]
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A few more. They may crack a smile, others may split a rib. Some are down right spooky.
"I dont have to explain. Read your the Bible. God does an infallible job of explaining it."
"NO NOT LIES.......i have a list of famous satanist....J.R.R. Tolkien, Ben Franklin, Edward Crowley... i know what the hell i'm tlaking about this time....i read up on this."
"I'd rather read a Left Behind book over a Harry Potter one anyday. But then again, that's just me. I'm a military person and I like books that are more realistic."
"No explanatory value for creationism? Well it explains why evolution fares so poorly..."
"what if you're blind? The Universe hasn't been proven to exist to a blind man, has it?"
"as for the wet dreams me and the staff... see them as a attack from satan because the bum is low enough to fight dirty where we cant defend ourselfs. the only thing i can recommand is praying for protection while you sleep."
"We are all something that you are not and never will be: evolved members of the best people ever to grace this Earth. That is the truth. Eat it."
"Your ad hominems weaken your arguments, and make you look immature and foolish."
"I homeschool my kids and I have always explained to them about the theory of evolution- in fact they are currently... using a book that studies Evolution in depth and counters it with the reasonableness of Creationism... I'm just trying to keep them from being indoctrinated into an unproven theory..." |
"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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ivanisavich
Skeptic Friend
67 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2004 : 20:45:05 [Permalink]
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Ok Ok...I just had to post this one:
quote:
"I'll take God's book over my brain & think power any day!!"
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2004 : 22:39:40 [Permalink]
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ivanisavich wrote:quote:
Great site Dave!
I learned of it from someone else here, but I'm too rushed right now to go looking for that post.
Go look at the previous months. Winace picks winning quotes in various categories. Saves a lot of time when looking for the truly scary religious kooks out there. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2004 : 15:57:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ivanisavich
Great site Dave!
quote:
"if somebody with a birth defect doesn't ask Jesus Christ to cover his sin-he'll burn in Hell with everyone else who hasn't...(homo's, preachers, liars)"
<snipped by Mabuse>
quote:
"If there is anyone I could think of in which I would spit on, it is a member of the aclu! I can't even capitalize their initials just as I can't and won't capitalize the s in satan!!!"
Oh man...what a good laugh!
It would be an even better laugh if the Fundamentalists on forums like Rapture Ready didn't take pride in ending up on that list. Like in this link. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2004 : 16:01:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by hippy4christ
A husband very well may abuse his authority over the wife, and if he does he'll be judged for it.
Hippy
Yes, judged by his fellow men.
But all he have to do is ask Jesus for forgivness, the blood of Christ will redeem, and save him. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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ivanisavich
Skeptic Friend
67 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2004 : 20:04:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
It would be an even better laugh if the Fundamentalists on forums like Rapture Ready didn't take pride in ending up on that list. Like in this link.
Oh geez...my IQ dropped 10% after reading through that thread... |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2004 : 21:19:41 [Permalink]
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Dr. Mabuse wrote:quote:
It would be an even better laugh if the Fundamentalists on forums like Rapture Ready didn't take pride in ending up on that list. Like in this link.
It seems they subscribe to the "any publicity is good publicity" philosophy. Surely they wouldn't be posting things they didn't believe to be true, so even if Winace is trying to mock them, he's "spreading the Word." Kinda socks it to Satan, don't it?
Of course, this discussion is seriously derailing this thread, almost from the start (sorry for being the trigger man, furshur).
With that in mind, Hippy wrote:quote:
1) There actually is a god
2) The Bible is message to humanity from Him
3) Therefore, the Bible is our moral standard, not ourselves
4) Therefore, we don't try to revise the Bible to suit our current moral beliefs, we revise the Bible so that it is closest to what was actually written down by the authors.
I've got to question at least point 4. Shouldn't the goal of revision be to make the Bible closer to what the original authors intended people learn (as opposed to editing it to be close to the words used)?
Actually, I've got to make this quick... Isn't paying more attention to the words of the Bible than to the teachings of Jesus (the meaning behind the words), a form of idolatry? While many Christian conservatives consider Catholics to be idolators of Mary, there appear to be plenty of moderate Christians who consider the conservatives (especially Biblical literalists) to be "biblio-idolators," or worshippers of the Book.
Seems to me that the one thing every Christian should agree on is the importance of getting Jesus' message to the people who may not have heard it. If that is, indeed, the goal, then the Bible is ripe for a massive revision. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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byhisgrace88
Formerly "creation88"
USA
166 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2004 : 23:39:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Even the fundementalists agree that many parts of the bible are not applicable anymore. The christians in general and even the fundementalist all agree to ignore the bible's stance on slavery, women in church, and a whole host of other points. The christians, when discussing their religion simply skirt the issue.
You say we skirt the issue, but if you would actually talk to one of us, you would be suprised how many of us would be happy to enlighten you on what we believe.
The slavery issue has an easy answer. It is not speaking to slaves as we think of them today. It is more speaking to overall treatment of servants, maids, butlers, etc. Except they did not use those words back then. They had strict moral guidelines. As hippy said if you harmed one of your "slaves"they were immedietly released.
As for the woman in the church issue. I will not only not skirt it, but I will agree with it. The bible clearly reads, "a woman should not teach over a man" in spiritual matters. If you believe the bible to be true there is nothing unclear about that. And in the home. I am not saying the man gets to make all decisions, or even gets the last word. But I am saying he must be the leader of the home. Especially spiritually.
quote:
"NO NOT LIES.......i have a list of famous satanist....J.R.R. Tolkien
Randy, I don't know what you have been reading up on, because that is flat out wrong. I don't know about the others you mentioned, but, J.R.R Tolkein along with C.S Lewis, writer of "The Chronicles of Narnia" and a few other great writers, were all part of a small group that called themselves, "the Inklings". All of whom were very strong christians.
quote:
Ok Ok...I just had to post this one:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I'll take God's book over my brain & think power any day!!"
I am so sick of people assuming we must be a little slower than most, because we believe what the bible says to be true. Here is basicly what you just said.......Ok Ok....I have been trying to withold my obviously far supierior intelect over these small minded christians. But I just had to inject a little bit of wisdom. Many of the smartest people ever were christians. So it must not be our brain and think power. Everyone is SO condesending and it makes me sick. So stop thinking you all that and get over yourself. |
Indeed, if we consider the unblushing promises of reward and the staggering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that Our Lord finds our desire, not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.-- C.S. Lewis |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2004 : 00:36:17 [Permalink]
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creation88 wrote:quote:
As for the woman in the church issue. I will not only not skirt it, but I will agree with it. The bible clearly reads, "a woman should not teach over a man" in spiritual matters. If you believe the bible to be true there is nothing unclear about that. And in the home. I am not saying the man gets to make all decisions, or even gets the last word. But I am saying he must be the leader of the home. Especially spiritually.
The question is: WHY? Is it only because the Bible says so, or do you see some sort of biological reason which feeds the faith?quote:
Randy, I don't know what you have been reading up on, because that is flat out wrong. I don't know about the others you mentioned, but, J.R.R Tolkein along with C.S Lewis, writer of "The Chronicles of Narnia" and a few other great writers, were all part of a small group that called themselves, "the Inklings". All of whom were very strong christians.
Apparently, you missed the fact that Randy was quoting a Fundamentalist Christian who was quoted on the "Fundies Say the Darndest Things" page. Yes: a fundie claimed that Tolkein was a Satanist.quote:
I am so sick of people assuming we must be a little slower than most, because we believe what the bible says to be true. Here is basicly what you just said.......Ok Ok....I have been trying to withold my obviously far supierior intelect over these small minded christians. But I just had to inject a little bit of wisdom. Many of the smartest people ever were christians. So it must not be our brain and think power. Everyone is SO condesending and it makes me sick. So stop thinking you all that and get over yourself.
Here, you've missed the fact that a Fundamentalist (4Christ@44 at RaptureReady) is the one who said, "I'll take God's book over my brain & think power any day!!" and another Christian (ivanisavich) thought (apparently) that that was a ridiculous thing to say. I'll definitely agree with ivanisavich's (apparent) meaning that letting the Bible do your thinking for you is a bad idea, just as (in my opinion) letting anyone think for you is a bad idea. God gave you a brain, it'd be insulting to avoid using it. Or do you think that God would really prefer a bunch of unthinking drones singing His praises (in which case, what's the point of free will)? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2004 : 00:48:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Creation88:
The slavery issue has an easy answer. It is not speaking to slaves as we think of them today. It is more speaking to overall treatment of servants, maids, butlers, etc. Except they did not use those words back then. They had strict moral guidelines. As hippy said if you harmed one of your "slaves"they were immedietly released.
Why would they have to immediately release servants, maids or butlers? Why couldn't the servants, maids or butlers just quit if they didn't want to be mistreated? Or are you saying they had to fire the maid after beating her? Now that would be adding insult to injury, eh? |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2004 : 06:11:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
As for the woman in the church issue. I will not only not skirt it, but I will agree with it. The bible clearly reads, "a woman should not teach over a man" in spiritual matters. If you believe the bible to be true there is nothing unclear about that. And in the home. I am not saying the man gets to make all decisions, or even gets the last word. But I am saying he must be the leader of the home. Especially spiritually
LOL
Another reason that anything written before the advent of women's rights, civil rights, and our modern understanding of psychology cannot be taken seriously.
C88, good luck finding a woman who's dying to submit to the spiritual leadership of her husband. Oh wait...try looking in Utah. LOL |
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ivanisavich
Skeptic Friend
67 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2004 : 20:51:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
I'll definitely agree with ivanisavich's (apparent) meaning that letting the Bible do your thinking for you is a bad idea, just as (in my opinion) letting anyone think for you is a bad idea.
That was my point, but obviously creation88 didn't catch it.
Oh well, thanks for backing me up there Dave. |
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