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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 02/16/2004 : 22:49:30 [Permalink]
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Creation88 wrote:quote:
Even if the story of Christs death is completly fictional. There should be nothing stopping them from making this movie.
There isn't anything stopping them from making or releasing the movie. There are quite free to ignore or dismiss negative reviews and/or angry editorials. Given the bad press, though, it may not make as much money or have as wide an impact as it otherwise might. Some people will simply not go to see it, and a few theaters may refuse to show it.quote:
If there was a movie made about the story "Chicken Little", would there be a backlash against the movie because it put fox in a bad light? NO! We would know that because one fox (or a few Jewish leaders in this case) killed a couple animals, does not mean all fox are evil.
Well, given what I've read about the complaints, the movie portrays more than "a few Jewish leaders" in a bad light, so your comparison may not be accurate.quote:
And by the way, i don't know if it's my PC or the site. But whats with the new font? you can't even read what the past quotes say.
I haven't seen any difference. I'll make sure @tomic sees your post, though. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2004 : 04:02:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Renae
Yet you feel qualified to make that judgment of my character?
The statement:- Jews have every right to whatever reaction they want to have about "The Passion of the Christ." Christians have every right to THEIR views on it, too.
is, in my opinion, despicable. How accurately does this statement reflect your personality? |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2004 : 04:15:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by creation88
Even if the story of Christs death is completly fictional. There should be nothing stopping them from making this movie.
The issue is not one of Gibson's civil liberties. It is one of endorsing or condemning incendiary, ahistoric propaganda.
What would you think of the son of a KKK leader making a movie about Afro-Americans throughout the country raping young white women? Renae would no doubt offer some drivel like: "Blacks have every right to whatever reaction they want to have about the film. Whites have every right to THEIR views on it, too." But what about you? Would you be "quite excited" about such a movie? |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
| Edited by - ConsequentAtheist on 02/17/2004 05:58:02 |
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2004 : 07:47:14 [Permalink]
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CA, what I said was ludicrously obvious.
Gibson's movie--which I suspect you haven't even seen, yet seem to have an opinion on anyway--is one man's artistic vision of an ancient event. It's painfully obvious that how someone reacts to it (or to any artistic expression) is related to their background--in this case, their religious background.
There's nothing "despicable" about acknowledging that. Now take a step down off your moral high horse. You're getting dizzy up there.
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byhisgrace88
Formerly "creation88"
USA
166 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2004 : 17:33:15 [Permalink]
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quote: There isn't anything stopping them from making or releasing the movie. There are quite free to ignore or dismiss negative reviews and/or angry editorials. Given the bad press, though, it may not make as much money or have as wide an impact as it otherwise might. Some people will simply not go to see it, and a few theaters may refuse to show it.--
It is projected to be one of the highest grossing films of the year. Anyone who refuses to show it making a bad financial move.
quote: Well, given what I've read about the complaints, the movie portrays more than "a few Jewish leaders" in a bad light, so your comparison may not be accurate.--
Well the movie is showing the story given in at least two of the gospels(i am not sure which ones to be honest) In which the crowd was was rowdy also, and calling for Jesus' death.
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Indeed, if we consider the unblushing promises of reward and the staggering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that Our Lord finds our desire, not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.-- C.S. Lewis |
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2004 : 18:20:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Renae
CA, what I said was ludicrously obvious.
Correct on both counts. |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2004 : 18:40:26 [Permalink]
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Creation88 wrote:quote:
It is projected to be one of the highest grossing films of the year. Anyone who refuses to show it making a bad financial move.
[Shrug] People do make sacrifices when it comes to their ideals. "Bad financial moves" happen all the time when the fiscally-correct thing to do conflicts with the morally-correct thing (in someone's judgement). This is why some people are boycotting Wal-Mart: even though they could probably get their groceries more cheaply there, they choose to spend more because they don't agree with Wal-Mart's policies towards their employees. Happens all the time.quote:
Well the movie is showing the story given in at least two of the gospels(i am not sure which ones to be honest) In which the crowd was was rowdy also, and calling for Jesus' death.
And the crowd is made up of nothing but Jews? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2004 : 18:50:31 [Permalink]
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| CA, here's a hint: being a jerk is unattractive and besides, it doesn't further your arguments. |
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2004 : 19:13:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by creation88
Well the movie is showing the story given in at least two of the gospels(i am not sure which ones to be honest)
I suggest that you pursue the matter. There are interesting differences between the Christ-Killer propaganda and the Lukan narrative which raises some serious questions about the former. |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
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Jarrid
Skeptic Friend
101 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2004 : 19:31:11 [Permalink]
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| From what I've read, it's not being pinned on the Jews. I read that the movie makes it obvious that Jesus gives His life for one, and also that it was the Romans who put Him on the cross. Also, about the money issue with this movie: how is it fair that a lot of movie theaters are raising the price for this movie? I don't understand that myself. For example, my theater here normally costs 6.50 for a movie, but for this movie it will cost 7.50. And they are expecting to sell out the theater for the movie in the first few days. My church here is thinking about renting out the theater for a day, and allowing people to come in, but the theater is being difficult because they say they can make more money somehow by not doing that...I don't understand that because we were going to buy every seat...but ok? |
I don't have to go swimming through an outhouse to know I wouldn't like it." |
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Jarrid
Skeptic Friend
101 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2004 : 19:34:17 [Permalink]
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"From what I've read, it's not being pinned on the Jews. I read that the movie makes it obvious that Jesus gives His life for one, and also that it was the Romans who put Him on the cross."
I read that the movie makes it obvious, for one, that Jesus gives His life rather than it being taken. Just to clarify what I meant, I read it and it seemed confusing;) |
I don't have to go swimming through an outhouse to know I wouldn't like it." |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2004 : 21:53:55 [Permalink]
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Jarrid wrote:quote:
Also, about the money issue with this movie: how is it fair that a lot of movie theaters are raising the price for this movie? I don't understand that myself. For example, my theater here normally costs 6.50 for a movie, but for this movie it will cost 7.50. And they are expecting to sell out the theater for the movie in the first few days.
If you've got want people want, wouldn't you sell it for what the market will bear? I'm guessing, given the hype, they could probably sell out the theater at $20 a seat, but don't want to make their gouging too obvious.quote:
My church here is thinking about renting out the theater for a day, and allowing people to come in, but the theater is being difficult because they say they can make more money somehow by not doing that...I don't understand that because we were going to buy every seat...but ok?
I would think that for sell-out movies, they often sell more tickets than they have seats (especially tickets purchased prior to the showing), since some percentage of the ticket holders won't show up due to babysitter problems, cars breaking down, unexpected muggings, etc.. Airlines overbook all the time, to keep the planes full, so why not theaters? After all, empty seats don't bring in concession-stand sales.
If the above is true (and someone in the biz is more than welcome to step in here), and the theater had, say, 400 seats and was expecting a 5% no-show rate (numbers made up off the top of my head), they'd lose $150 in ticket sales alone by renting to your church. Any extra paperwork or other labor done by the theater management to close the deal would just mean more money lost.
When the theater management is sure they won't have any more sell-out days for this movie, I would bet they'd be more than happy to rent the place out to your church, as it'll mean more income for them than even a 9/10ths-full theater. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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byhisgrace88
Formerly "creation88"
USA
166 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2004 : 22:18:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
And the crowd is made up of nothing but Jews?
I don't have a Bible handy so I can't confirm this. But I believe that it all happened in Judea. Therefore the majority would have been Jews. Pilate and his soldiers were placed there by high ranking Roman Empire officials, if not Ceaser himself. And they just happened to be placed in Judea.
quote:
I suggest that you pursue the matter. There are interesting differences between the Christ-Killer propaganda and the Lukan narrative which raises some serious questions about the former.
CA--You really have some serious issues don't you? You pick out some stupid detail that I was even good natured about. And make it sound like it changes my whole argument. Before you call someone "ignorant". Maybe you should check yourself. |
Indeed, if we consider the unblushing promises of reward and the staggering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that Our Lord finds our desire, not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.-- C.S. Lewis |
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2004 : 05:38:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by creation88
CA--You really have some serious issues don't you? You pick out some stupid detail that I was even good natured about. And make it sound like it changes my whole argument. Before you call someone "ignorant". Maybe you should check yourself.
Unfortunately, you are ignorant about this topic - in fact, far too ignorant to know whether the differences between Luke and Mt/Mk is a stupid detail or not. What is far worse, however, is that you have no interest in changing the situation. |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
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MyHeart109
New Member
USA
1 Post |
Posted - 02/18/2004 : 14:10:44 [Permalink]
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 I think that you don't understand why the jews are so nervous about this film. And here are some reasons why!
1.) Hitler showed his Nazi members the other form of "The Passion" in order to show them that there is a good reason for them to kill the jews.
2.) The older ones of this movies had made not so long ago may i remind you like in say 1930's , people after seeing the "play" of the "passion" went around beheading their jewish neighbors.
3.) KKK members call themselves "christians" and have hate for jews already which is giving them a even better reason for killing them.
4.) People are very stupid and probably arent as intelligent as you and might go hurting their classmates physically or mentally.
5) I'm jewish and I already get comments about being this and yes by christians too. (I cant imagine what they will do to me when they see that)
6.) Someone is going to get hurt.
Honestly you need to understand jews have a perfectly good reason for being so worried all the time! Not everyone is kind and alot of people seriously would do somethign about it. Not to mention I hear events that happen every now and then when ppl burn down local synagogues. but, it doesnt matter! pretty soon they will make ure the jews are in there when the movie comes out. And suck it up? Seriously that sounds pretty um ignorant. In Europe right now there is sickos out there that do hurt the jews AND some guy is telling the christians and muslims to come together and get rid of the jews. WOW HOW DELIGHTING!!!  |
Paige |
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