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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
 Posted - 02/19/2004 : 09:22:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Doomar
Gorgo,
Though this may not be on topic, I agree with you that how we look at the world is filtered through our beliefs. Choosing to belief that all things are perfect is certainly a choice, but one that doesn't seem to match the reality of every day life. If truth is important in our beliefs, not just perspective, then there is one truth (or an entire bank of truth)about the way the world is. Understanding what this truth is may be a lifelong journey, but to put on rose colored glasses and deny the fact of evil in our world is not a good start at comprehending the truth. It may work for you now, but consider how it would work for others in a very bad situation, like somebody in Iraq. One doesn't have to go to Iraq, though, to see evil at work in society; just read a newspaper or watch tv. But you don't even have to go that far, let's just examine our own motivations. Many times we are selfishly motivated at the cost of someone else. Even our good deeds are motivated by selfish desires at times. We don't love our neighbor or even care about him most of the time. But what if there is a person out there with good motivations, maybe he or she can wear the rose glasses for a while, but how would he ever help his faltering neighbor or friend except by taking them off. How would they help society except by noticing all the problems? It would seem that the attitude about such problems is where we get into trouble. Things aren't all bad or all good. There is a mixture.
What if there is a God who knows that and is involved, helping people with their problems and accepting them in whatever state He finds them, not rejecting them outright, but working with them to lift them from their plight? Being just like Jesus of Nazareth was, doing good everywhere he went, healing the sick, forgiving sinners who were turning from sin, lifting up those oppressed by the devil and setting them free inside, proclaiming "good news" and "peace, good will toward men". Would that God suffer the same fate as Jesus, be rejected by the leaders of society and religion and be put to death?
What an extraordinary example of Morton's Demon!
The irony just knocked me off my chair.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2004 : 11:13:00 [Permalink]
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I read somewhere in this thread that Jesus was Jewish. That is clearly not correct. I inspected many different pictures at several churches and the pictures showed esentiallythe same person. He was obviously european - probably German-English.
Another point, just look at his mom and dad's (not God) names - Mary and Joe. These aren't Jewish names.
But seriously, the prejudice against jews by christians is an ongoing problem that was fostered by the early church. The whole idea of the church sanctioning the breaking of one of the 10 commandments (keep the sabath holy), was to break with the jewish traditions. Passover was celibrated by the early church until again the church sought to break from judisum. The irony is not lost on me that the 'traditional' Easter dinner is ham.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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byhisgrace88
Formerly "creation88"
USA
166 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2004 : 12:25:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
I read somewhere in this thread that Jesus was Jewish. That is clearly not correct. I inspected many different pictures at several churches and the pictures showed esentiallythe same person. He was obviously european - probably German-English.
No amtter what Jesus actually was, your study of pictures in church tells you nothing. All pictures we see in a church building are complete imagination on the part of who drew them. And have nothing to do with what he actually looked like. Your claim tha he was European. That is the funniest thing I have heard in a good while. Thanks for the laugh. He was most likely very arab looking. Because a good part of his time was spent in what is now Ahfganistan.
quote:
But seriously, the prejudice against jews by christians is an ongoing problem that was fostered by the early church. The whole idea of the church sanctioning the breaking of one of the 10 commandments (keep the sabath holy), was to break with the jewish traditions. Passover was celibrated by the early church until again the church sought to break from judisum. The irony is not lost on me that the 'traditional' Easter dinner is ham.
Ongoing?!?!?!?! Christians have NOTHING against Jews any more. The reasons we broke away from there traditions is because we dis-agree in many asspects of our religion. Not because we were prejiduce. So don't take things that are not there and make them an issue.
I quote:
think that you don't understand why the jews are so nervous about this film. And here are some reasons why!
1.) Hitler showed his Nazi members the other form of "The Passion" in order to show them that there is a good reason for them to kill the jews.
I don't want to sound insensitive, or anti-sematic becauase I'm really not. But anything you show as the reason to do something would work the same way. To use my Chicken Little analogy again. If I showed someone that story as the reason that we shoud kill fox around the world, people would be convinced. And this time around the opposite will be happening. People will be urged not to take it the wrong way. And who know Jews might get sympathy instead of hate. There will be without a doubta couple morons who take it as a reason to hate the Jews. But they are as I said Morons, and there won't be many of them.
quote:
2.) The older ones of this movies had made not so long ago may i remind you like in say 1930's , people after seeing the "play" of the "passion" went around beheading their jewish neighbors.
That was a very insensitive time to anyone who was different. In this day and age people are scared to death of being called prdjudice or racist.
quote:
3.) KKK members call themselves "christians" and have hate for jews already which is giving them a even better reason for killing them.
So do Mormons and other cults. The term "christian" is thrown around like it does not mean anything anymore. So that means nothing.
quote:
4.) People are very stupid and probably arent as intelligent as you and might go hurting their classmates physically or mentally
I won't argue that people are stupid. But I really don't think to much abuse will go on. Or at least it won't fuel anybody. Because most of the kids who would do that, are the ones who would not even claim to be Christians. Therefore they would take it as a story not histoical. And even they can figure out tha you don't need to bug someone over a story. My point is there not going to beat people up because they killed Jesus whom they don't believe in.
quote:
5) I'm jewish and I already get comments about being this and yes by christians too. (I cant imagine what they will do to me when they see that)
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "this". But the thought seems to have never crossed your mind, that maybe just maybe it will have no negetive effect on you. Your already worried what's gonna happen to you, before anything has even happened. My bet is that you will get annoying sympathy from people trying not to look like there upset with you. And very little if any racism.
quote:
6.) Someone is going to get hurt.
Honestly you need to understand jews have a perfectly good reason for being so worried all the time! Not everyone is kind and alot of people seriously would do somethign about it. Not to mention I hear events that happen every now and then when ppl burn down local synagogues. but, it doesnt matter! pretty soon they will make ure the jews are in there when the movie comes out. And suck it up? Seriously that sounds pretty um ignorant. In Europe right now there is sickos out there that do hurt the jews AND some guy is telling the christians and muslims to come together and get rid of the jews. WOW HOW DELIGHTING
!!!
Well that guy is evil, literally with the likes of Saddam, Osama, and Hitler. But we don't hesitate to make movies putting arabs in as the bad guys. And because some of the Jews are the "bad guys" in this movie, should not really change a thing. |
Indeed, if we consider the unblushing promises of reward and the staggering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that Our Lord finds our desire, not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.-- C.S. Lewis |
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byhisgrace88
Formerly "creation88"
USA
166 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2004 : 16:52:01 [Permalink]
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ALSO-- CA-- Unfortunately, you are ignorant about this topic - in fact, far too ignorant to know whether the differences between Luke and Mt/Mk is a stupid detail or not. What is far worse, however, is that you have no interest in changing the situation.--
It's not ignorant at all. It's in the bible. Because I have not taken the time to look it up does not make me ignorant. I have not felt the need to rush to my bible and find it because "Skeptic Friends" is not my life. It's not even something I think about for more than the 15-20 minutes I do it every day. So my point is, NO it's really not that big a deal. |
Indeed, if we consider the unblushing promises of reward and the staggering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that Our Lord finds our desire, not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.-- C.S. Lewis |
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byhisgrace88
Formerly "creation88"
USA
166 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2004 : 20:27:59 [Permalink]
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| Why is nobody responding to my post??? It's been nearly 12 hours. Normally theres quite a few respnses by that time |
Indeed, if we consider the unblushing promises of reward and the staggering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that Our Lord finds our desire, not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.-- C.S. Lewis |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2004 : 22:55:42 [Permalink]
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Creation88 wrote:quote:
Why is nobody responding to my post??? It's been nearly 12 hours. Normally theres quite a few respnses by that time
Perhaps because other people here have lives outside of the SFN (it is Friday night, after all), and you wound up stating that you don't really give a hoot, and aren't willing to spend more time on learning anything more about this subject: why should anyone else?
I apologize for being so harshly honest, but if you're going to expect people to reply to you quickly, any day of the week, you're going to have to at least pretend to be sitting on the edge of your own seat, wondering where the dicsussion will go next, and what you'll be able to learn from it, or teach about it. Unfortunately, that option is now ruined for you, and saying, in effect, "meh, I only spend 20 minutes a day on this stuff" does not really entice a person to go out of their way to reply to you. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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byhisgrace88
Formerly "creation88"
USA
166 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2004 : 23:24:58 [Permalink]
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Perhaps because other people here have lives outside of the SFN (it quote:
is Friday night, after all), and you wound up stating that you don't really give a hoot, and aren't willing to spend more time on learning anything more about this subject: why should anyone else?
I apologize for being so harshly honest, but if you're going to expect people to reply to you quickly, any day of the week, you're going to have to at least pretend to be sitting on the edge of your own seat, wondering where the dicsussion will go next, and what you'll be able to learn from it, or teach about it. Unfortunately, that option is now ruined for you, and saying, in effect, "meh, I only spend 20 minutes a day on this stuff" does not really entice a person to go out of their way to reply to you
Wow....talk about para-phrasing. Of course I "give a hoot". Why do you think I do give my 20 minutes a day to it. I have a very busy life. And still find time to do it every day.
It's not that I'm unwilling to learn. It's that I either do this early in the morning or late at night generally. And don't ever have the time afterward to go looking something up. I'm not saying that I never will look up what books specificly the passages I mentioned are in. But I just keep forgetting to do it.
I only said those things because I was being called for the third time "ignorant" because I had not looked them up. And just making the point that because I did not have refferencces for "CA" does not mean I'm ignorant.
And I was only mentioning that nobody had responded because I found it odd. Normally given ten hours there are multiple responses to a post. What do you think I am? Some 15yr old kid who thinks everyones waiting at there computor, hoping C88 makes a post so that there lives can be enriched? I'm not naive. It was an observation. Not an insulting jab. |
Indeed, if we consider the unblushing promises of reward and the staggering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that Our Lord finds our desire, not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.-- C.S. Lewis |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2004 : 11:41:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by creation88
... Your already worried what's gonna happen to you, before anything has even happened. ...
Are you going to heaven or hell ? Are you sure ? Could Pascal's Wager be too limited ? Are you sure that christian faith isn't just the grand deception of some evil being in order to prevent you from worshipping the true good being ? |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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byhisgrace88
Formerly "creation88"
USA
166 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2004 : 12:18:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Are you going to heaven or hell ? Are you sure ? Could Pascal's Wager be too limited ? Are you sure that christian faith isn't just the grand deception of some evil being in order to prevent you from worshipping the true good being ?
Hopefully heaven. Yes I'm sure. Don't know what Pascals Wager was. And yes I'm sure. Any good being would make himself known. None of the other religions of the world add up whatsoever. And none offer hope. |
Indeed, if we consider the unblushing promises of reward and the staggering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that Our Lord finds our desire, not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.-- C.S. Lewis |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2004 : 13:59:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by creation88
He was most likely very arab looking. Because a good part of his time was spent in what is now Ahfganistan.
First, eh... this may sound stupid, but how will spending time in Afghanistan make him very arab-looking? I've always been under the impression he was Arameic.
Second, what evidense do you have that he did spend time "a good part of his time" in Afghanistan? I have never heard anything of that before. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2004 : 14:06:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by creation88
I only said those things because I was being called for the third time "ignorant" because I had not looked them up.
No, you were called ignorant because- you lack elementary knowledge on the textual transmission of the NT
- you lack elementary knowledge on the differences between Mt/Mk and Luke, and the relevance of those differences
- you lack elementary knowledge of he contradiction between scripture and the rules of the Sanhedrin
- you lack elementary knowledge of the antisemitism of the early church fathers
- you lack elementary knowledge of the antisemitic history of the "Christ-Killer" charge
In brief, you were called ignorant because you are ignorant. That is neither a crime nor a necessary disability. Simply learn something.
quote:
Originally posted by creation88
It's not ignorant at all. It's in the bible.
Good grief! |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
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byhisgrace88
Formerly "creation88"
USA
166 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2004 : 17:09:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
you lack elementary knowledge on the textual transmission of the NT
If it's so "elementary". Without looking it up, I would like the books and passages in which they are in. QUICKLY! You should not have to thin k about this. It's elementary. And of course I see the difference between the books. I did not know off hand, and have not looked it up. And it really is not that big a deal. Please tell why you have to know. It must be obvious if you can make such a big deal about it. |
Indeed, if we consider the unblushing promises of reward and the staggering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that Our Lord finds our desire, not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.-- C.S. Lewis |
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2004 : 18:59:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by creation88
And of course I see the difference between the books. I did not know off hand, and have not looked it up. And it really is not that big a deal.
Help me understand the process of Christian revelation:
(1) you did not know off hand, but
(2) you of course see the differences now, even though
(3) you have not looked it (sic) up, and now
(4) you conclude that it's "not that big a deal"
You haven't a clue. |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2004 : 05:50:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by creation88
quote:
Are you going to heaven or hell ? Are you sure ? Could Pascal's Wager be too limited ? Are you sure that christian faith isn't just the grand deception of some evil being in order to prevent you from worshipping the true good being ?
Hopefully heaven. Yes I'm sure. Don't know what Pascals Wager was. And yes I'm sure. Any good being would make himself known. None of the other religions of the world add up whatsoever. And none offer hope.
Other religion are based upon the same amount of empirical evidence. I don't know how you can be sure. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Jarrid
Skeptic Friend
101 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2004 : 17:28:10 [Permalink]
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You know, not to start this up all over again, but it seems that from what I've read, this movie isn't blaming the Jews for anything...I believe for one it makes it clear that Jesus chose to die--he had the option, according to the movie. And also, beyond that, it was the Roman soldiers who actually committed the act...
Jarrid |
I don't have to go swimming through an outhouse to know I wouldn't like it." |
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