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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
 Posted - 03/15/2004 : 10:16:05 [Permalink]
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| My daughter, last year, when her school started the recitation of the pledge before classes began asked me if she had to say the pledge. Pulling out the 1956? ruling that the forced recitation of the pledge was unconstitutional (which was started before the addition of 'under God') gave her the impetus to stand up in class the first day they said it and tell her teacher, 'This is unconstitutional and I refuse to participate.' She and about 6 others walked out of the classroom. Among them were 2 Buddhists, 1 Jew, 1 atheist/agnostic, 1 pagan, and 1 unclassified by my kid. Fortunately, she had a teacher that was willing to stand behind her when it was brought to the attention of the principle. |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2004 : 11:34:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Trish
My daughter, last year, when her school started the recitation of the pledge before classes began asked me if she had to say the pledge. Pulling out the 1956? ruling that the forced recitation of the pledge was unconstitutional (which was started before the addition of 'under God') gave her the impetus to stand up in class the first day they said it and tell her teacher, 'This is unconstitutional and I refuse to participate.' She and about 6 others walked out of the classroom. Among them were 2 Buddhists, 1 Jew, 1 atheist/agnostic, 1 pagan, and 1 unclassified by my kid. Fortunately, she had a teacher that was willing to stand behind her when it was brought to the attention of the principle.
Trish,
The case was in 1943.
WEST VIRGINIA STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION v. BARNETTE, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=search&court=US&case=/us/319/624.html
The 1954 Act added the words "Under God".
The 1956 Act added "So Help Me God" to the oathes of office for federal judges and changed the National Motto to "In God We Trust" as well as commanded the motto's printing on bills and coinage of the US.
Oh, and Kudos to the children for showing the bravery to stand up for what they believe in and to the teacher who backed them up.
So how does it feel to be the mother of an instigator for whats right? You must be very proud. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
| Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 03/15/2004 11:37:01 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2004 : 12:44:39 [Permalink]
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| Ditto on that Trish. Brave, smart young lady. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2004 : 16:25:58 [Permalink]
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Ok, I'll accept the 1943 date on the ruling. I wasn't quite certain in was 56 anyway. We looked it up on the web, I have a bad memory for dates.
Yeah, she is pretty brave, but she was also fighting the posting of the 'National Motto' in all publically funded buildings and organizations here in CO. Funny how the organization that brought the bill forward that would require this, sold a suitably framed pic of the 'National Motto' for $15 a piece, just the right size required by the bill. This all came about to promote patriotism, she asked me why these things were patriotic, so we discussed patriotism and what it is and what it isn't. The idea that her speaking out was more patriotic than mouthing nonsense was entirely hers. |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 17:48:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ljbrs
Randy:
I very much like the "One Nation Under Dog" which you suggested. Great idea!
ljbrs :D
Me too, but my question is: Who was Richard Stans? I can't find his name in any American history book. You know, the part where it says:
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for Richard Stans..." 
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Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 18:25:18 [Permalink]
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I think Richard Stans was the creative element behind Underdog.
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"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 19:20:37 [Permalink]
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Great folks in this group! It is so much fun to read all of your interesting stuff!
Think of the poor souls who felt that they simply HAD to change the Pledge of Allegiance to force others to pay homage to a nonexistent "something or other." The simpletons have succeeded in forcing their silliness upon the rest of us. I think that the Pledge of Allegiance with the "under God" might bring forth a horse laugh or two once in awhile. It did force me to stifle a horse laugh the first time I heard the silly addition.
I think that uttering something silly in the place of "God" might be a good idea. We really cannot let the blithering idiots win.
ljbrs |
"Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve about these suns in a manner similar to the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings inhabit these worlds."
Giordano Bruno
(Burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church Inquisition in 1600) |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2004 : 18:29:11 [Permalink]
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Additionally, if you practiced carefully, you could fart at the "under God" place in the Pledge. Of course, that would take REAL CONTROL...
ljbrs |
"Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve about these suns in a manner similar to the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings inhabit these worlds."
Giordano Bruno
(Burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church Inquisition in 1600) |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2004 : 20:00:47 [Permalink]
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| Ha! ljbrs, you're such a stinker! |
"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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tw101356
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2004 : 22:06:05 [Permalink]
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I made this little number up and recite it whenever I'm stuck in a pledge situation:
"I pledge to uphold the Constitution of The United States of America,
and, too, the republic which it defines, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Most people don't notice because it has the same rythym. For the few that do, it usually starts an interesting discussion. Did have one gentleman get upset one time, especially when I stated that all manner of scoundrels hide behind the flag.
- TW
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- TW
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2004 : 12:08:15 [Permalink]
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I pledge allegiance to Lady Mondegreen...
...No, that will never work. But, after doing a Google search for "Richard Stans", it seems appropriate. As one can find out from mental_floss (and many other places), a "Mondegreen" is a mis-heard lyric, word, or phrase. From my searches, I've found out that the Pledge is very much fertile territory for Mondegreens. I've compiled below a wide variety of them, all allegedly genuine Mondegreens (I did not, for example, include "I pledge allegiance to Queeen Fragg" from Calvin & Hobbes).
In the section that follows, the real Pledge is in italics, Mondegreens following each phrase in a list, where appropriate. This way, you can mix and match your own personal Mondegreen Pledge. For example, "...one naked underdog in a dirigible..."
I pledgeallegiance- a legion
- a lesion
- a lesson
- all legions
- our lesions
- the pigeons
to the
flagofthe
United States of- indicted steaks of
- United State of [note the singular]
- United station
- United steaks of
Americaand tothe
republic for- republic four
- republic where
- republican
- republicans
- repugnant for
- wee public for
- wee puppets for
which it stands- Richard Sands
- Richard stands
- Richard Stans [or Stanz]
- Richardson
- riches stands
- widget stands
- witches hands
- witches stamps
- witches stand
- Witchit Stands
- witchit hands
one
nationunder God- under guard
- underdog [captilized or not]
- underground
indivisible- and a vegetable
- in a dirigible
- in the lizardball
- in the vestibule
- in the visible
- individual
- invisible
- undies visible
with
liberty- a little tea
- libraries
- liver, cheese
- liver, tea
and justice- and just a
- and just rice
- and just this
- and puffed rice
- injustice
for allSometimes, extra things get tacked on at the end:By my calculations (including the various endings), the above lists offer us 6,368,544,000 possible unique pledges (obivously, not all of them will make grammatical sense). Written down at a rate of one per second, it would take almost 202 years to list them all.
I find it interesting that only six words make it through "unscathed" from this process: to the, the, the, one and with. None of the other 24 words are left alone. It's a bit surprising that more words aren't mangled, especially since "one" has a homonym, and "the" is often mispronounced.
So, parents, don't let your kids do violence to the 20% of the Pledge which is still pristine. Teach them to say "the," and not "da." 
(While poking around the Internet, I found an interesting article by a Unitarian about the Pledge and "test oaths." Good reading. And here one can find a real-life Richard Stans.)
References: |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2004 : 19:19:50 [Permalink]
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Dave W.:
I just loved that post of yours (STILL LAUGHING).
When I first heard the "under God" I was into "indivisible" and nearly choked. If I could find a way to "pass air" loudly at the "under God" I would. However, any silly word will do as a replacement for "under God". "Under Dog" would be the easiest to remember.
I never/seldom am in a situation where the "Pledge of Allegiance" is chanted/recited, so I guess all of this is simply theoretical as far as I am concerned.
All the same, I love your above post/posts. It would be very difficult to memorize a long series of nonsense words, particularly since I am never in a position to use them. Those poor souls who teach under such conditions and are forced to say the Pledge of Allegiance have my deepest sympathy.
ljbrs |
"Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve about these suns in a manner similar to the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings inhabit these worlds."
Giordano Bruno
(Burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church Inquisition in 1600) |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2004 : 19:26:40 [Permalink]
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"Ha! ljbrs, you're such a stinker!"
Thank you, Randy. Farting makes a BIG stink. I have never succeeded in my attempts at farting. But, I keep practicing. But, in my case, practice does not make perfect (other than the noiseless stink).
ljbrs |
"Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve about these suns in a manner similar to the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings inhabit these worlds."
Giordano Bruno
(Burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church Inquisition in 1600) |
| Edited by - ljbrs on 03/30/2004 19:30:09 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2004 : 19:41:26 [Permalink]
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Thanks, ljbrs. However,quote:
It would be very difficult to memorize a long series of nonsense words, particularly since I am never in a position to use them.
You don't need to do that. Just pick one version you like, punctuate as you will, and memorize that.Attach our lesions to the frog of the indicted steaks of America (into the republicans: witches hands!) - one naked, underground individual, with liver-tea injustice for all. If you can conjure up some vivid imagery to go with the words, it'll be easier to memorize. I find the idea of witches doing psychic surgery on republicans quite amusing. And since I've got psoriasis, I'd very much like to attach my lesions to something other than me (and a frog will do just fine). And liver tea is, indeed, an injustice. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2004 : 20:35:22 [Permalink]
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You all crack me up. What a great thread. 
I remained silent during "under God." Even when I was an Angry Young Woman, I didn't think that the Pledge was the hill to die on, as they say in the army.
It's kinda weird to make kids say the Pledge anyway, isn't it? With or without "under God," it's indoctrination to have kids mindlessly repeating something they memorized but don't really understand...hmmmm....
Naaahhhh. That's too paranoid for even a leftist like me. |
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