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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
 Posted - 05/23/2004 : 18:03:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Also, I read somewhere that our galaxy is on a collision course toward Andromeda -- someone correct me if I recall that wrong.
You are correct. There are several guesses as to when this will happen, a billion years from now or two, or three. And we still don't know if the collision will be head on, or a grazing blow. In either way, both Milkyway and Andromeda will cease to exist as we know them.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 18:05:40 [Permalink]
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Fill in the blank, "Who is this Gaia that I should be mindful of Him/Her?"
(Or was it Galaxia?) |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 18:28:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Also, I read somewhere that our galaxy is on a collision course toward Andromeda -- someone correct me if I recall that wrong.
You are correct. There are several guesses as to when this will happen, a billion years from now or two, or three. And we still don't know if the collision will be head on, or a grazing blow. In either way, both Milkyway and Andromeda will cease to exist as we know them.
Thanks, Doc. I read so much that a lot of it gets tangled up in non sequetur, if I've spelled that right. Sometimes detail gets lost if I don't revisit.
I guess we don't need to be worrying about any sort of cosmic, Local Bang for a while. :whew:
Verlch, let us get back to the OP and the Theory of Evolution. How do you explain that there are no mammalian fossils in the Cambrian and Percambrian strata, nor dinosaurs for that matter?
Further, what do you think of the recent, fossil finds in China of transisonial species from dromeosaur to bird, notably Microraptor gui, the four-winged flyer (I think, glider, but whadda I know?)?
I would also be interested in your insites on how Noah managed to build a huge ship (barge) without shipyard facilities. And how it stayed afloat in the turmoil of the Flood against all of the known principles of ship-building?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 05/23/2004 18:43:38 |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 21:40:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
I never got to work for him again because I basically got laughed out of his house, by him and his wife.
I can easily see how that could have happened. If you talk as incoherent as you write, I wouldn't hire you in the first place. No matter what references you had.
That's funny, no I am an alright business guy...I've had one 30,000 dollar job. Several 10,000 dollar months...Just because I'm a contractor doesn't mean I know how to type...lol...but the fact is I do a great job, but like you it's hard to please everyone. That's why i'm streamlining and getting tired of catering to guys like you. I'll take the big commercial job anyday over working for a penny pincher like you. And as you can tell I'm not afraid to talk origins with anybody, most of the time I have at least 5 lined up at all times, many times 15...Is that the sign of somebody that doesn't know the ropes...I think not. |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 21:51:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Fill in the blank, "Who is this Gaia that I should be mindful of Him/Her?"
(Or was it Galaxia?)
I see you've taken your witchcraft 101 class!!! Good job buddy, so what do the stars tell us will happen tommorrow!! Cause I wanna know! |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 21:55:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
I see you've taken your witchcraft 101 class!!! Good job buddy, so what do the stars tell us will happen tommorrow!! Cause I wanna know!
I thought you were more eager to believe than to know, but then again I could've misunderstood you. |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 22:11:51 [Permalink]
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http://www.nature.com/nsu/030120/030120-7.html
Yes a four winged bird, you would think that was evolving? No? Why are there not six winged birds now and why is that one gone? I mean if things are evolving who makes the calls and sets the boundries?
My dad is a creation scientist and I know that is going to upset Dr. Sassafrass...but he says evolution if correct is like throwing 100 pennies in the air and having them all land heads!!!! And I believe him of my own free will, I have looked at evolution and dismissed it as garbage. What are the chances of 100 pennies landing heads? Almost zero. I don't know what rocket scientist funded all you evolutions but that fella must be rich.
http://www.icr.org/pubs/btg-b/btg-003b.htm
There you have it debate over....Lol...Jk'ing...
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What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 22:36:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
Verlch, let us get back to the OP and the Theory of Evolution. How do you explain that there are no mammalian fossils in the Cambrian and Percambrian strata, nor dinosaurs for that matter?
Well my buddy, if I can call you that without you getting hostile...What else is in that strata? Are there birds? I would think that during a flood of global status that birds would be able to fly far away and to the highest mountains. So how many birds are in there? (I'm watching closely my eighth grade grammer so Dr. Eienstien will think I'm clever!!!) I would venture to say there aren't any birds in that strata...
quote:
http://www.geocities.com/earthhistory/grand.htm
My father worked closely with a creationist, I'm not going to tell you geniuses who because my father and my first girlfriend know the guy...But my father traveled the world with this man. I was in Santa Monica or whatever and bumped into her in Feb. but that was besides the point. I live in Oregon and went to southern Cali for a business trip and bumped into my first GF in a back alley, Imagine that!!!
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What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 02:15:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
My dad is a creation scientist and I know that is going to upset Dr. Sassafrass...but he says evolution if correct is like throwing 100 pennies in the air and having them all land heads!!!! And I believe him of my own free will, I have looked at evolution and dismissed it as garbage. What are the chances of 100 pennies landing heads? Almost zero. I don't know what rocket scientist funded all you evolutions but that fella must be rich.
Ah, the above explains a lot.
Throwing pennies into the air is random chance. Evolution is not random chance; it is driven by outside factors such as natural selection. Go and read some Talk Origins.
A six-winged bird would not be a tetrapod. All bird and dinos were/are tetropods as are thee and me. Are you suggesting that large arthropods, such as lobsters, should fly? In the fantasy world, I suppose they might.
There are no mammal/bird/dino fossils in those strata because there were no bird/mammal/dinos around at the time to leave any. If there had been a global flood, those strata would not even exist. Must I post the Leipzig again? Have you found a way to debunk it? I would love to see someone debunk Leipzig; give the over-educated rascal his comeuppence.
M. gui is a transitional species between reptile and bird, and long extinct. It is one of a growing number being discovered in China. Glad you finally posted a link that's worth opening. Sad that you failed to study and follow up on it.
Creation science is an oxymoron. Creationists do no science and only study it to find and distort evidence to their favor. It's called, 'quote mining', when they aren't out and out lying about it. When was the last time the discovery of any new species, ancient or modern, was attributed to a creation 'scientist'? What biological discoveries have they made in the lab? How many scholarly papers have they submitted to peer-reviewed journals such as Science, Nature, or Copiea? Hell, they can hardly get into National Geographic. NG is not a scientific journal, but it does have high publishing standards.
I'm still wondering how a barge the dimentions of the alledged Ark was built of wood (where did all that lumber come from and in what mill was it sawn), with Bronze Age technology, and how it survived the biggest, baddest alledged storm, ever. As a general contractor, you should know something, indeed quite a lot, about structure and construction. Use your knowledge and apply a little logic.
Oh, and birds flying away from the flood or dinos running uphill to escape is too silly to comment on.
Edited to add:
quote:
Here is the issue: All advocates of the old earth insist that "proof" of such ages lies in the rocks and fossils of the earth's crust. They claim these were laid down by either slow and gradual processes, or by occasional rapid processes of local extent. The fact that many of these rock layers are of continental extent forces them to postulate migrating shorelines, widely meandering rivers, unthinkably large deltas, etc. Furthermore, the rock units in most cases were laid down by catastrophic events, but these events, they say, were rare, occurring every million years or so.
But if the flood actually happened the way the Bible seems to describe it (i.e., a year-long, mountain-covering, world-restructuring event), it would have laid down many layers of mud full of dead things (i.e., now rocks and fossils) covering immense areas, having been deposited under catastrophic conditions. A proper interpretation of the rocks and fossils speaks of a global, dynamic, watery catastrophe: the Biblical Deluge.
Hahaha! Run a google on 'varves'. And the fossil record is in the exact order that the ToE predicts, and ICR is full of it.
Later on, maybe I'll do the varves myself. It's been a while since I've read of them.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 05/24/2004 02:29:44 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 03:05:09 [Permalink]
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Got curious and did varves. Wow! The creationists are all over it. Must be that varves, showing evidence of some 20 million years history, make them nervious.
I couldn't find the paper I was looking for, so setled on this one. It's part of a longer piece:
quote:
Varves
The famous Green River formation covers tens of thousands of square miles. In places, it contains about 20 million varves, each varve consisting of a thin layer of fine light sediment and an even thinner layer of finer dark sediment. According to the conventional geologic interpretation, the layers are sediments laid down in a complex of ancient freshwater lakes. The coarser light sediments were laid down during the summer, when streams poured run-off water into the lake. The fine dark sediments were laid down in the winter, when there was less run-off. (The process can be observed in modern freshwater lakes.) If this interpretation is correct, the varves of the Green River formation must have formed over a period of 20 million years.
Creationists insist that the earth is no more than 10,000 years old, and that the geologic strata were laid down by the Flood. Whitcomb and Morris (p. 427) therefore attempt to attribute the Green River varves to “a complex of shallow turbidity currents ...” Turbidity currents, flows of mud-laden water, generally occur in the ocean, resulting from underwater landslides. If the Green River shales were laid down during the Flood, there must have been 40 million turbidity currents, alternately light and dark, over about 300 days. A simple calculation (which creationists have avoided for 20 years) shows that the layers must have formed at the rate of about three layers every two seconds. A sequence of 40 million turbidity currents covering tens of thousands of square miles every two-thirds of a second seems a bit unlikely.
Henry Morris apparently can't deal with these simple numbers. Biologist Kenneth Miller of Brown University dropped this bombshell on him during a debate in Tampa, Florida, on September 19th, 1981, and Morris didn't attempt a reply. Fred Edwords used essentially the same argument against Duane Gish in a debate on February 2, 1982. In rebuttal, Gish claimed that some of the fossilized fishes project through several layers of sediment, and therefore the layers can't be semiannual. As usual, Gish's argument ignores the main issue, which is the alleged formation of millions of distinct layers of sediment in less than a year. Furthermore, Gish's argument is false, according to American Museum of Natural History paleontologist R. Lance Grande, an authority on the Green River Formation. Grande says that while bones or fins of an individual fish may cut several layers, in general each fish is blanketed by a single layer of sediment.
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/6flood.htm
Oughta be a lot of grist for the verlch mill on this one. 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 06:01:08 [Permalink]
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Verlich wrote:
quote:
Well my buddy, if I can call you that without you getting hostile...What else is in that strata? Are there birds? I would think that during a flood of global status that birds would be able to fly far away and to the highest mountains.
Strangely enough Pterosaurs which were very strong flyers did not make it to the mountains. These light weight creatures are only found in strata with the massive dinosaurs. Not one of these animals is found in conjunctions with mammals or modern birds.
I bet the odds of that happening would be the same as throwing a hand full of pennies in the air and having them all land heads up!
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 06:26:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Fill in the blank, "Who is this Gaia that I should be mindful of Him/Her?"
(Or was it Galaxia?)
I see you've taken your witchcraft 101 class!!!
LOL! You don't have many clues about what lies outside the church walls do you? The idea of the living, concsious Mother Planet has only distant relation to witchcraft.
http://www.oceansonline.com/gaiaho.htm
quote:
Good job buddy, so what do the stars tell us will happen tommorrow!! Cause I wanna know!
That's astrology, and not astronomy. One is fairytales, and the second is science. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 07:25:28 [Permalink]
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verlch wrote:quote:
And I believe him of my own free will, I have looked at evolution and dismissed it as garbage. What are the chances of 100 pennies landing heads? Almost zero.
The fact is, verlch, that if you believe that evolution is comparable to a random tossing of pennies, then you don't understand evolution well enough to be able to dismiss it as garbage. Instead, like the stereotypical backwards native, you're mystified by the high-tech workings of that which the explorers take almost for granted.
On the other hand, if ignorance is bliss, you must be very happy. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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