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dominic_dice
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
53 Posts |
 Posted - 04/22/2004 : 09:31:10
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Do they work? I mean, they have bacteria in them,which are obviously not harmful, but do they do any good? What good effects could they possibly have(breaking down food maby?)?
Interestingly I have seen soaps with 'good bacteria' in now. Now I am certain that that is rubbish...
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tw101356
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2004 : 09:50:57 [Permalink]
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General response from personal knowledge and quizzing a friend who is a medical researcher...
There are bacteria that live in your body, especially your digestive system, that are helpful. There are also some that are neutral. If these get out of equilibrium in some fashion, you can get have gastro-intestinal problems. Drinking the water in a foreign country can cause this to happen. (Mexicans can run into the same problem when they drink the water in the US.) When things settle down and the bacteria population is in equilibrium again, the gastro problems go away. (And yes, there are lots of other causes...)
If the bacteria in yogurt were having any sort of effect, then I would expect them to change your personal bacterial population. I think this would cause you to spend a lot of time sitting down in the smallest room in your house.
On another note, before the discovery of sulfa drugs and penicillin, there was a strong line of research in phages - bacteria that ate other bacteria - in an attempt to find biological cures for bacterial diseases. The amazing effectiveness of drugs cause researchers to stop investigating them. Now that we are seeing more and more drug resistant bacteria, biologists are resuming the research in this area.
Makes me think of mice becoming poison resistant, but never acquiring resistance to cats.
- TW
Ed. fer speling.
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- TW
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| Edited by - tw101356 on 04/22/2004 09:52:07 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2004 : 10:34:38 [Permalink]
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Just published in Advanced Drug Delivery Review:Multiple potential beneficial effects have been attributed to the probiotic use of lactic acid bacteria, bifidobacteria and other non-pathogenic commensals. At present, much of the promise of probiotics remains outside the realm of evidence-based medicine and awaits the results of prospective trials, now underway. No reliable in vitro predictors of in vivo efficacy of putative probiotics have been identified. Rigorous comparisons of probiotic performance have not been performed and the suitability of a given probiotic for different individuals is largely unexplored. In other words, the clinical trials so far have been eqivocal or absent, we can't test probiotics in a petri dish, and nobody knows which probiotics to give to which people for which disease.
We do, however, know that gut bacteria is necessary for production of at least one B vitamin (which is why breastfeeding and/or forified formula are important - people aren't born with those bacteria). We also know that, as tw101356 pointed out, imbalances between "good" and "bad" bacteria can lead to stuff shooting out rather violently. Antibiotics can cause such imbalances, which is one reason why diarrhea is a common side-effect of them.
Also, some of the "bugs" in there appear to contribute to Irritable Bowel Syndrome. For this, the above, and other reasons, methods of shifting the populations in the gut are going to be big in the field of gastroenterology for some time to come. After all, a little yogurt is much preferrable for most people than pharmaceuticals or even surgery.
The problem is that people are selling the idea of "yogurt instead of drugs" right now, before we've got good evidence that the particular probiotics in use now really have any beneficial effects.
By the way, there is also current research into treating some bowel diseases with parasite eggs. They apparently trigger the immune system into a "proper" response, instead of a response which is itself a disease. And the parasites they're using are not human parasites, so it's not like they're trading one disease for another. This research appears to still be in its early stages, too. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2004 : 10:53:53 [Permalink]
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| On a related note. Yogurt was recommended by my doctor when taking antibiotics, to prevent the antibiotics from killing the necessary bacteria in the stomach. The antibiotics never make it into my system without the yogurt. Dry heaves are no fun. |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2004 : 21:00:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Trish
On a related note. Yogurt was recommended by my doctor when taking antibiotics, to prevent the antibiotics from killing the necessary bacteria in the stomach. The antibiotics never make it into my system without the yogurt. Dry heaves are no fun.
I probably should look this up but aren't you NOT supposed to drink milk when taking antibiotics?
And BTW, anti-bacterial soap is a waste of money if not just a bad idea. |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2004 : 21:24:39 [Permalink]
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I have to eat yogurt, otherwise I spend about 24 hours with the dry heaves. The last time I was on antibiotics and didn't eat yogurt when taking them I lost 3 pounds in a 24 hour period. Not the best idea when you are in the first trimester of a pregnancy.
Most antibiotics require that you take them with food or milk. Check the side of your bottles when you get them from the pharmacy. But even a full meal isn't enough to prevent the antibiotics from killing the bacteria necessary for digestion in my system. It's the active cultures in the yogurt that helps prevent this problem for me by causing an increased production of the bacteria. At least that's the idea and the way the doctor explained it to me.
Whether fact or placebo, I don't know, I just know I can take antibiotics without the bad side effects when I eat yogurt. |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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tw101356
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2004 : 03:22:51 [Permalink]
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Woody - I think tetracycline is the only antibiotic that should not be taken with dairy products. The pharmacist will slap a 'no dairy' label of some sort on the pill bottle nowadays if it's appropriate, or just ask them if you're not sure.
- TW |
- TW
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2004 : 21:15:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tw101356
Woody - I think tetracycline is the only antibiotic that should not be taken with dairy products. The pharmacist will slap a 'no dairy' label of some sort on the pill bottle nowadays if it's appropriate, or just ask them if you're not sure.
- TW
TW, you know, I seem to remember many years ago taking that. Perhaps that's where I got the idea.
While I do take medication for on going (years) medical conditions I try not to go to doctors or take anything I don't approve of. I usualy read the PDR before getting anything the doctor says, to see if I want, need or otherwise should put anything on or in my body. So it is not often that I have contact with antibiotics. (but funny, I did fairly recently have to take some, haha. Don't have bottles full in the cupboard though.)
Trish, yes, I did find some recomendations for the use of yogart but only suggested, not conclusive evidence that it truly works. But hey, go for it.  I think we should all know our own bodies and not rely only on doctors. Doctors...huh! What do they know?
Have hear of and have personal expierence with too many mistakes.
Getting back to the main question...like I said, know your body and don't over pay for fad stuff. IMO, if one eats fresh fruits and veggies....what else do you need? |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
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LordofEntropy
Skeptic Friend
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2004 : 23:56:12 [Permalink]
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Yogurt is a very good idea after being on anti-biotics. The anti-biotics kill good and bad bacteria alike. The yogurt helps replenish the good bacteria in your gut. The E.Coli in your gut is your best friend, it prevents other bacteria from being able to grow, so it is a large part of your bodies resistance to nasty critters, at least ones you ingest anyway.
Also, whatever you do, ALWAYS take all of your anti-biotics until they are used up. Failing to do so can leave large numbers of the more resistant bacteria alive to multiply yet more anti-biotic resistant bacteria. Often times this happens when your good bacteria are depleted and are unable to help prevent the bad ones from growing, and then you are stuck with a resistant infection. Bad news.
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Entropy just isn't what it used to be.
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dominic_dice
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
53 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2004 : 13:18:11 [Permalink]
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| But what do 'good' bacteria actually do? I am assuming they break down food. But on another note,do taking extra 'good' bacteria when noy taking anti biotics actually help? |
"Are you THE dominic_dice"
"No, a dominic_dice. I come in six packs now" |
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LordofEntropy
Skeptic Friend
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2004 : 19:36:09 [Permalink]
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"Good" bacteria present in the gut are considered "good" mainly because:
A) They aren't harmful to us(unless trauma or something allows them to pass from the GI into bloodstream)
B.) The presence of these bacteria(E.Coli, Staph) prevent other bacteria, that could be harmful, from being able to take root and grow.
C) They also aid in digestion.
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Entropy just isn't what it used to be.
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2004 : 23:23:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofEntropy
Yogurt is a very good idea after being on anti-biotics.
I think it should be also stated that one 1st and formost should check with his own doctor and/or read up on anything pertaining to their own condition and not accept a statement that is too general.
In my case I was told by a doctor that I shouldn't eat any milk, cheese or other related products.
Besides, YUK, yogurt is disgusting, haha. (unless it has a lot of sugar, fruit and flavor added and then you may as well eat ice cream. for all the calories it has.)
nlm |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
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ktesibios
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2004 : 17:42:58 [Permalink]
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I like yogurt.
Please don't spoil it by telling me it's good for me. |
"The Republican agenda is to turn the United States into a third-world shithole." -P.Z.Myers |
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2004 : 20:18:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ktesibios
I like yogurt.
Please don't spoil it by telling me it's good for me.
Trust me Ktesibios, if you are buying the store bought kind with fruit flavors and sweetened it's not all that good for you, more than any other prossessed food.
Go for it. Eat all you want, you'll get as fat as any other American who eats a lousy diet.
Enjoy! |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2004 : 16:48:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by dominic_dice
But what do 'good' bacteria actually do?
They occupy the ecological niche that 'bad' ones would otherwise occupy. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
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Computer Org
Skeptic Friend
392 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2004 : 06:43:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tw101356
General response from personal knowledge and quizzing a friend who is a medical researcher...
There are bacteria that live in your body, especially your digestive system, that are helpful. There are also some that are neutral. If these get out of equilibrium in some fashion, you can get have gastro-intestinal problems. Drinking the water in a foreign country can cause this to happen. (Mexicans can run into the same problem when they drink the water in the US.)
Wow! Now there's something that I never knew. I'd always thought that it was not-quite-pure Mexican water and our 'sanitized' intestinal tracts. So some of our drinking water zaps Mexicans with its impurity? That's some "food for thought". (Were there a "Food Forum", I might dish some of that food-for-thought up. ) But back to tw101356's post.
quote:
When things settle down and the bacteria population is in equilibrium again, the gastro problems go away. (And yes, there are lots of other causes...)
<snip>
On another note, before the discovery of sulfa drugs and penicillin, there was a strong line of research in phages - bacteria that ate other bacteria - in an attempt to find biological cures for bacterial diseases. The amazing effectiveness of drugs cause researchers to stop investigating them. Now that we are seeing more and more drug resistant bacteria, biologists are resuming the research in this area.
Makes me think of mice becoming poison resistant, but never acquiring resistance to cats.
- TW
Ed. fer speling.
I really like the notion of phage-research and your comment, tw101356, finally offers an explanation for something I've never quite understood: Herbal-type cures.
The herbs, fungi, etc. that used to be used as a medical remedy for sickness was gathered from the wild --- 'freshness' was an important thing. (Today they come from bottles; maybe even grown in sanitized greenhouses.) So, in days of yore, when you gathered the remedy ingredents you also gathered, unknowingly, some of their environment;---to include the resident phages.  In many, many cases of "herbal" remedies maybe the real healing ingredient was not the herb but the phages that lived on the herb, fungus, tree-bark, etc. |
Do thou amend thy face, and I'll amend my life. --Falstaff |
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