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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 05/14/2004 : 12:45:26
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quote:
It's the same chair !!!! OMFG !!
Here's where you really need the tin foil hat. Look at this pic that was released today of the latest prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib prison. Notice the white chair in the lower left corner. Now - look at the chair Nicholas Berg is sitting in!! It's the same fucking chair!!
I have some more pics but the walls are the same yellow color and the baseboard is the same color as Abu Ghraib prison. Then - as I've said before - what is Nicholas Berg doing in an orange prison jumpsuit? The orange jumpsuit is the same color as the ones used at the prison!!! Terrorists don't don't put the people they kidnap in orange prison jumpsuits!
http://marc.perkel.com/archives/000233.html
[Moved to Conspiracy Theories - Dave W.]
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 05/14/2004 : 13:11:44 [Permalink]
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I've never seen a prison jumpsuit made from a shiny fabric like silk or polyester before. It's also not nearly the same orange.
And my neighbors have one of those chairs. Now I know they're CIA. I only suspected it before. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2004 : 14:03:39 [Permalink]
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I don't know; don't know. Even Perkel is putting it out as a speculation, and he has a pretty good reputation for accruatcy, albeit left wing.
I sincerly hope that it is not. The alternitive is all but unthinkable.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2004 : 18:32:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
[quote]It's the same chair !!!! OMFG !!
Here's where you really need the tin foil hat. Look at this pic that was released today of the latest prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib prison. Notice the white chair in the lower left corner. Now - look at the chair Nicholas Berg is sitting in!! It's the same fucking chair!!
I don't know about the chair or the suit, and don't feel like straining my brain right now to worry about it. However, something jumped out at me when looking at the other photo of that girl and that army guy leaning behind her. It looks like a composite. Something about the way her head is, doesn't look right or natural. Looks like it was pasted on.
I question this whole mess that's going on right now about that. How can anyone say the Iraqi prisioners were tortured. Big deal, so they had to be nude! Yes, I know, the culture is weird about that but come on! Tourtue?
And for those sub-human idiots to slice off someones head for that reason (or any reason!), it kind of shows you what the 'normal' world is dealing with. (if that was the case, when this all is sorted out)
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| Edited by - Woody D on 05/14/2004 18:37:17 |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2004 : 18:52:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
It's the same chair !!!! OMFG !!
Here's where you really need the tin foil hat. Look at this pic that was released today of the latest prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib prison. Notice the white chair in the lower left corner. Now - look at the chair Nicholas Berg is sitting in!! It's the same fucking chair!!
I have some more pics but the walls are the same yellow color and the baseboard is the same color as Abu Ghraib prison. Then - as I've said before - what is Nicholas Berg doing in an orange prison jumpsuit? The orange jumpsuit is the same color as the ones used at the prison!!! Terrorists don't don't put the people they kidnap in orange prison jumpsuits!
Read some of the posts and only one word comes to mind about the above. BULLLLLONEY |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2004 : 16:22:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Woody D
And for those sub-human idiots to slice off someones head for that reason (or any reason!), it kind of shows you what the 'normal' world is dealing with. (if that was the case, when this all is sorted out)
If America is going to act World Police, don't you think those Americans should be held to a higher standard?
You know, this is the kind of attitude that pisses the rest of the world off. And I'm included in that bunch.
Every single fucking transgression of the Geneva Convention speaks volumes of the hypocrisy of the so-called Western Civilization. Why would anyone in middle-east believe that USA, or UN for that matter wants to bring peace and prosperity to Iraq? USA forced the UN into a corner where both lost credibility.
I'm having nightmares about what the American Government headed by G.W. Bush (and the American military) might do next.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2004 : 18:36:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by Woody D
And for those sub-human idiots to slice off someones head for that reason (or any reason!), it kind of shows you what the 'normal' world is dealing with. (if that was the case, when this all is sorted out)
If America is going to act World Police, don't you think those Americans should be held to a higher standard?
You know, this is the kind of attitude that pisses the rest of the world off. And I'm included in that bunch.
Every single fucking transgression of the Geneva Convention speaks volumes of the hypocrisy of the so-called Western Civilization. Why would anyone in middle-east believe that USA, or UN for that matter wants to bring peace and prosperity to Iraq? USA forced the UN into a corner where both lost credibility.
I'm having nightmares about what the American Government headed by G.W. Bush (and the American military) might do next.
Well said, Doc.
As anyone who has ever done a little serious reading of history can tell you; barbaric acts always and only spawn more barbarism.
Bush makes me wish I was a religious man. Then I could sincerly pray that this morally and ethical deficent, utterly foul administration will soon be sent home. By way of Levanworth, Kanasas or better still; Marion, Illinois.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2004 : 23:22:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
You know, this is the kind of attitude that pisses the rest of the world off. And I'm included in that bunch.
Since you put my quote up there I guess you are saying something about it but I don't know what. What is 'this kind of attitude' that you are talking about? Would like to answer you but don't know what you mean.
quote:
I'm having nightmares about what the American Government headed by G.W. Bush (and the American military) might do next.
You are not the only one. The man is intellectually deficent. I have often said he doesn't represent my views as a reluctant citizen if the USA. |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
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clawedlemew
New Member
1 Post |
Posted - 05/16/2004 : 11:14:45 [Permalink]
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| OMG!! I've got three of those chairs!!! |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2004 : 11:32:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by clawedlemew
OMG!! I've got three of those chairs!!!
And thus we have established a clear link. Welcome to the forum clawedlemew! |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2004 : 15:21:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Woody D
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
You know, this is the kind of attitude that pisses the rest of the world off. And I'm included in that bunch.
Since you put my quote up there I guess you are saying something about it but I don't know what. What is 'this kind of attitude' that you are talking about? Would like to answer you but don't know what you mean.
I should have quoted this instead:
quote:
I question this whole mess that's going on right now about that. How can anyone say the Iraqi prisioners were tortured. Big deal, so they had to be nude! Yes, I know, the culture is weird about that but come on! Tourtue?
Yes, it IS torture. The Geneva Convention prohibits that kind of degrading treatment. I really feel sorry about the guy standing on the box with the wires he believes is going to fry him. Would you like to trade places with him? That's the first question you can use to determine if it's torture or not.
The fact that this (and the sexual abuse-) treatment is (apparently) common in frat-initiations does not make it less degrading, or "not torture".
Perhaps I read more into your post than you actually wrote or meant. What set me off was the "Big deal, so they had to be nude!"...
That statement sent my train of thought down the wrong track, and I ended up thinking about the sentiment "why shouldn't we? They've kidnapped and murdered several American citizens, it serves them right!"
Edited to add: The persons responsible for executing the American are aparently crazy, or idiots, or have some other mental illness that might or might not be treatable. But be careful with the term "sub-human" because if you're not careful you (like many Americans I've seen in Swedish news) might end up thinking that all muslim middle-easterners are "sub-human". |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 05/16/2004 15:27:14 |
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 08:59:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by Woody D
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
You know, this is the kind of attitude that pisses the rest of the world off. And I'm included in that bunch.
Since you put my quote up there I guess you are saying something about it but I don't know what. What is 'this kind of attitude' that you are talking about? Would like to answer you but don't know what you mean.
I should have quoted this instead:
quote:
I question this whole mess that's going on right now about that. How can anyone say the Iraqi prisioners were tortured. Big deal, so they had to be nude! Yes, I know, the culture is weird about that but come on! Tourtue?
Yes, it IS torture. The Geneva Convention prohibits that kind of degrading treatment. I really feel sorry about the guy standing on the box with the wires he believes is going to fry him. Would you like to trade places with him?
I wasn't thinking of that photo, only the nude ones which were more frequently shown here.
As for trading places with the man on the box, sometimes the way I feel, I don't know that he's not in a better place, but that's just me. Actually in general, I agree that wasn't right but it's nothing that hasn't been done by their own government and worse. Not that that's an excuse but to only get upset that it was done just then (by Americans)....why has not a big a news story been done about all the other things that go on all the time by many others?
quote:
That's the first question you can use to determine if it's torture or not.
The fact that this (and the sexual abuse-) treatment is (apparently) common in frat-initiations does not make it less degrading, or "not torture".
Torture, to me, is something horrid. Being degraded while not pleasant is not torture with threat of death. But then you might be upset to know I don't think there is such a thing as rape either. It's plain assault. Just because there's a sexual overtone to it why should it be in a separate category? Now, if there was an extra threat, a weapon used, then we might have something to be more concerned about and add more charges.
quote:
Perhaps I read more into your post than you actually wrote or meant. What set me off was the "Big deal, so they had to be nude!"...
Reading more into things seems to be a very common past time for a lot of people.
quote:
That statement sent my train of thought down the wrong track, and I ended up thinking about the sentiment "why shouldn't we? They've kidnapped and murdered several American citizens, it serves them right!"
Well...yeah, they are kidnapping people!
quote:
Edited to add: The persons responsible for executing the American are aparently crazy, or idiots, or have some other mental illness that might or might not be treatable. But be careful with the term "sub-human" because if you're not careful you (like many Americans I've seen in Swedish news) might end up thinking that all muslim middle-easterners are "sub-human".
1st of all, I'm not American. I think Americans are stupid. I was born in California, I'm a Californian. My parents were not born in the USA and I've never felt a part of the 'American' culture....whatever that is.
Next, all animals have some kind of trait that helps them in survival, humans are supposed to be able to reason. Those who don't are SUB-HUMAN. Cutting off someones head in retaliation for taking off someones clothes is not reasoning. BTW, muslims, along with people like P. Bush are all sub human to some extent, they are all mentaly deficent. I would think by now....thousands of years later(from beliving that a god causes lighting, etc.), the human would have evolved to higher thinking but apparently there are those who still live in the dark ages. They are SUB-Human. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 04:33:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Woody D
I wasn't thinking of that photo, only the nude ones which were more frequently shown here.
Well, they didn't pose nude because they thought it was fun. They did it at the threat of physical harm... Which is not allowed according to the Geneva Conventions.
quote:
As for trading places with the man on the box, sometimes the way I feel, I don't know that he's not in a better place, but that's just me.
Then, by all means, why not pose for some similar picture, and the post it here? Please do it without the cover on your head, so I have a chance to determine if the look on your face is pure, honest horror or just faked.
That man wouldn't be standing there if he wasn't convinced he'd die if he fell off.
quote:
Actually in general, I agree that wasn't right but it's nothing that hasn't been done by their own government and worse. Not that that's an excuse...
Then why bring it up?
It's the worst excuse I can imagine right now. America came in, guns blazing, proclaiming they would liberate the people. And what did the Iraqi people get? The same shit that's been happening to them the last 20 years.
quote:
...but to only get upset that it was done just then (by Americans)....why has not a big a news story been done about all the other things that go on all the time by many others?
That's a question I can't answer. Try CNN, NBC-NEWS, or even FOX-NEWS.
quote:
But then you might be upset to know I don't think there is such a thing as rape either. It's plain assault. Just because there's a sexual overtone to it why should it be in a separate category?
I have been assaulted but never raped, but I've met people who have been. They have been damaged in their spirit in ways that make me happy that I've only been assaulted. Since sex is so much more intimate, the psychological damage is so much worse. Bones heal. Cuts heal, and the scar is usually skin deep. But emotional trauma takes very long time to heal, if it ever does.
quote:
Now, if there was an extra threat, a weapon used, then we might have something to be more concerned about and add more charges.
And how do we know there wasn't? The guards are armed, are they not? (They wouldn't be effective without weapons, right?) The prisoners know there will be hell to pay if they don't do as the guards order them to.
quote:
Well...yeah, they are kidnapping people!
But the prisoners wasn't the kidnappers. They had an alibi!
The fact that my dad was mean to me doesn't give me the right to torture my younger brother, just because I can...
quote:
Cutting off someones head in retaliation for taking off someones clothes is not reasoning.
Reality check please.
We all (including them) know that these picture are just the top of the iceberg. Had there only been pics of nude prisoners... but there were worse.
quote:
BTW, muslims, along with people like P. Bush are all sub human to some extent, they are all mentaly deficent.
And here ends the discussion on my part.
That quote speaks volumes about your character. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 05/24/2004 04:36:38 |
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 19:47:07 [Permalink]
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Jesus, Woody. Are you just saying this stuff to get a reaction about of people?
There are reports of American soldiers raping and sodomizing Iraqui prisoners--most of whom (70-90%) appear to be innocent, according to the Red Cross. A 15 year old boy was raped. Others were sodomized with light sticks, beaten, terrorized with dogs and possibly murdered. I could go into more detail, but I won't. Even in the horror and chaos of war, it's impossible to logically or morally justify this behavior.
Victims, victim advocates, doctors, police, psychologists, and rape trauma counselors believe rape is a distinct, horrible violation of someone's humanity. I can't imagine the lack of empathy that would prompt someone to dismiss it. |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2004 : 11:07:06 [Permalink]
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Woody,
As signatories of the Geneva Conventions, the American military should be held to the standards of a legally and binding contract accepted by our Congress, regardless of with whom we are dealing and their standards of treating POWs. Our standards should be and must be held to those which are laid out in the Geneva Conventions. That this barbarity occured shows a lack of training, discipline, honor, integrity, leadership, etc, on the part of those officers and enlisted involved in the degradation of another individual. Leadership goes downhill, from the CIC to the lowest Pvt. Says something with regards to our current leadership, doesn't it.
Edited to Add:
It even violates our own Constitution, you know the bit prohibiting the use of cruel and unusual punishment. |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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| Edited by - Trish on 05/25/2004 11:08:11 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2004 : 12:53:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Woody D
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by Woody D
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
You know, this is the kind of attitude that pisses the rest of the world off. And I'm included in that bunch.
Since you put my quote up there I guess you are saying something about it but I don't know what. What is 'this kind of attitude' that you are talking about? Would like to answer you but don't know what you mean.
I should have quoted this instead:
quote:
I question this whole mess that's going on right now about that. How can anyone say the Iraqi prisioners were tortured. Big deal, so they had to be nude! Yes, I know, the culture is weird about that but come on! Tourtue?
Yes, it IS torture. The Geneva Convention prohibits that kind of degrading treatment. I really feel sorry about the guy standing on the box with the wires he believes is going to fry him. Would you like to trade places with him?
I wasn't thinking of that photo, only the nude ones which were more frequently shown here.
As for trading places with the man on the box, sometimes the way I feel, I don't know that he's not in a better place, but that's just me. Actually in general, I agree that wasn't right but it's nothing that hasn't been done by their own government and worse. Not that that's an excuse but to only get upset that it was done just then (by Americans)....why has not a big a news story been done about all the other things that go on all the time by many others?
quote:
That's the first question you can use to determine if it's torture or not.
The fact that this (and the sexual abuse-) treatment is (apparently) common in frat-initiations does not make it less degrading, or "not torture".
Torture, to me, is something horrid. Being degraded while not pleasant is not torture with threat of death. But then you might be upset to know I don't think there is such a thing as rape either. It's plain assault. Just because there's a sexual overtone to it why should it be in a separate category? Now, if there was an extra threat, a weapon used, then we might have something to be more concerned about and add more charges.
And in a society which prizes modesty, this isn't torture? Sexual crimes oftentimes are a lot more traumatic than a simple assault. In addition, the guards do have these things called guns. It comes with the uniform of a MP.
quote:
quote:
Perhaps I read more into your post than you actually wrote or meant. What set me off was the "Big deal, so they had to be nude!"...
Reading more into things seems to be a very common past time for a lot of people.
Ad hominems do not forward your position.
quote:
quote:
That statement sent my train of thought down the wrong track, and I ended up thinking about the sentiment "why shouldn't we? They've kidnapped and murdered several American citizens, it serves them right!"
Well...yeah, they are kidnapping people!
And criminal acts performed by terrorists gives the US special dispensation to act criminally......how?
quote:
quote:
Edited to add: The persons responsible for executing the American are aparently crazy, or idiots, or have some other mental illness that might or might not be treatable. But be careful with the term "sub-human" because if you're not careful you (like many Americans I've seen in Swedish news) might end up thinking that all muslim middle-easterners are "sub-human".
1st of all, I'm not American. I think Americans are stupid. I was born in California, I'm a Californian. My parents were not born in the USA and I've never felt a part of the 'American' culture....whatever that is.
Next, all animals have some kind of trait that helps them in survival, humans are supposed to be able to reason. Those who don't are SUB-HUMAN. Cutting off someones head in retaliation for taking off someones clothes is not reasoning. BTW, muslims, along with people like P. Bush are all sub human to some extent, they are all mentaly deficent. I would think by now....thousands of years later(from beliving that a god causes lighting, etc.), the human would have evolved to higher thinking but apparently there are those who still live in the dark ages. They are SUB-Human.
Shall we sing "Woody Woody Uber Alles"?
Violence is most definately a human trait. We are very good at it.
Cutting off someones head in retaliation for violently forcing members of their religion to engage in immodest behavior in direct violation of that religion's tenets is overreacting to a point. The Qu'ran does advocate violence against those who violently oppress their religion. Killing an innocent due to it violates the Qu'ranic law and is usually the dogma of extremist fundamentalists. Killing one of the guards involved in the abuse is what the Qu'ran could have called for. Calling all Muslims sub-human ignores the message and practice of mainstream Islam and uses the same tactics as extremist fundamentalist Christians of hasty generalization.
Perhaps your definition of American differs from mine. Mine is anyone who is born in the United States or becomes a naturalized citizen of the United States. What's yours?
The same accusation of sub-human has been used to justify the murder of millions of all races, creeds, and religions. It was completely invalid then, it remains invalid now. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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