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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 06/01/2004 : 14:32:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
Even though I swing between being atheist and agnostic, I make an exception and pray to God you are right, and that there are enough of you to make a difference when the day comes. Because I'm getting really and honestly scared!
A sad reality of life in the US. We have something like 120 million people who don't bother to vote. Florida (my home) was the pivotal state in the 2000 election. After it was all said and done the generally agreed upon vote tally was about a 300 vote win for Bush. (I'd argue that no vote tally could be accurate when the margin of error is larger than the difference between the vote counts). But think about it.... if 1000 more people had gone out and voted for Gore... there might very well have been a different outcome to the count.
If anyone can think of a way to get the apathetic to the polls.... please give it a shot.
I agree that another four years of Bush is a scary thought. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 21:25:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Renae
Keep in mind that even documentary film makers are still storytellers first, not journalists. I view documentaries with that in mind.
Don't know that 'storyteller' should be the right word. I'm thinking that telling a story in many peoples minds means...made up.
Yes, a good documentary should have a consistentcy that explains what's happening but shouldn't by it's definition be factual....document the 'story'?
quote:
I think it's funny that right-wingers get so upset over Moore. Just another reflection of their control issues, IMO. They control most of big media and big business, but every once in a while, a voice escapes their control. You go, Moore.  
Just wondering, aside from the topic of Moore, why there is a divide?
I listen to talk radio shows where the host is so hostile toward what he calls the left wing just as here the word right wing is used. How is it that people get put into those catagories? And then there's a line that can't be crossed. If you say something you are put on one side or the other and the accusations fly. No one wants to talk or listen just see what they want to see. |
| Edited by - Woody D on 06/09/2004 21:46:21 |
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 21:28:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi
I'd be interested to see specific examples.
That little cartoon in Bowling for Columbine about the NRA and making it sound like they were part of the KKK. I don't have dates in front of me but if you check I think you will find the history of that was a bit off.
It was funny though. In more ways than one. |
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 21:37:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi
Now THAT'S a fallacy. The media isn't anywhere near liberal enough.
[/quote]
There's a whole lot of media out there. Are you guys talking only about the news or so called news? I hear some people call 'the media' also movie studios, or anything like that where a message can be put forth. I don't read the LA Times because I don't think it covers the stories I want to read about. I don't watch what people call the broadcast news on TV because most of it is not real news or the stories aren't through enough.
Where do we, the public get both sides of various goings on? |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2004 : 10:06:19 [Permalink]
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| just an FYI.... this will be in theaters 6/25/2004. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2004 : 12:46:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Woody D
There's a whole lot of media out there. Are you guys talking only about the news or so called news? I hear some people call 'the media' also movie studios, or anything like that where a message can be put forth. I don't read the LA Times because I don't think it covers the stories I want to read about. I don't watch what people call the broadcast news on TV because most of it is not real news or the stories aren't through enough.
Where do we, the public get both sides of various goings on?
I like NPR. You get in depth news, no sensationalism, and it's about as even-handed as anything I've ever seen/heard/read. Though I do think they pander to the conservatives more than they should, but the conservatives have them by the throat and don't generally have the integrity not to use that advantage if they feel crossed. |
-Chaloobi
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| Edited by - chaloobi on 06/16/2004 12:48:58 |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2004 : 12:49:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
just an FYI.... this will be in theaters 6/25/2004.
Woo Hoo! Free speach wins and Democracy will benefit. Hopefully. |
-Chaloobi
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2004 : 12:56:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Woody D
quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi
I'd be interested to see specific examples.
That little cartoon in Bowling for Columbine about the NRA and making it sound like they were part of the KKK. I don't have dates in front of me but if you check I think you will find the history of that was a bit off.
It was funny though. In more ways than one.
Is that the one that showed Americans killing Indians and Blacks? I don't recall it implying the NRA = KKK. In fact, I thought the movie was very positive on gun ownership and on the vast majority of the membership of the NRA, who are not extremists like the leadership often comes off as. Moore himself is an NRA member, speaks positively of the NRA, and comes out plainly that he is not anti-gun. His beef with Heston was about the NRA under Heston behaving like a bunch of extremely insensitve jack-asses by holding pro-gun rallies in places that had just experienced tradgedies. In any case, this is not at all a good example of an overt lie by Moore. If there ARE good examples, I'd like to know about them, as I am currently under the impression that Moore is fairly up-front and operates with a high degree of integrity. If there's any solid evidence this isn't true, I'd like to see it. |
-Chaloobi
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2004 : 14:40:21 [Permalink]
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If there ARE good examples, I'd like to know about them, as I am currently under the impression that Moore is fairly up-front and operates with a high degree of integrity.
Moore lies in the same way that Rush Limbaugh lies.... by never speaking a single untrue word. They are experts at altering context and presenting arguments with ommited facts.
So... technically, they never lie.
I am going to see the movie though.... at a minimum it should have some entertainment value, as it bashed G.W. Bush  . An activity that I enjoy. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Les
Skeptic Friend
59 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2004 : 18:26:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi
[quote]Originally posted by chaloobi
If there ARE good examples, I'd like to know about them, as I am currently under the impression that Moore is fairly up-front and operates with a high degree of integrity. If there's any solid evidence this isn't true, I'd like to see it.
I think Moore is funny and a good film maker, but there is evidence to suggest that he's lazy with his research and sometimes not completely honest with himself or his audience.
There's an excellent review for "Bowling For Columbine" here:
http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20021119.html
It's from a site that's neither liberal or conservative (though their first book is an analysis of dishonesty in the Bush administration; you don't have to be partisan to notice that, just honest), but rather looks for and points out hyperbole and dishonesty in partisan rhetoric.
I don't loathe the man like some do, but I do think he gives ammo to the Republican loyalists and that's the last thing I want those people to have. |
| Edited by - Les on 06/16/2004 18:27:06 |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2004 : 08:01:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Les
quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi
[quote]Originally posted by chaloobi
If there ARE good examples, I'd like to know about them, as I am currently under the impression that Moore is fairly up-front and operates with a high degree of integrity. If there's any solid evidence this isn't true, I'd like to see it.
I think Moore is funny and a good film maker, but there is evidence to suggest that he's lazy with his research and sometimes not completely honest with himself or his audience.
There's an excellent review for "Bowling For Columbine" here:
http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20021119.html
It's from a site that's neither liberal or conservative (though their first book is an analysis of dishonesty in the Bush administration; you don't have to be partisan to notice that, just honest), but rather looks for and points out hyperbole and dishonesty in partisan rhetoric.
I don't loathe the man like some do, but I do think he gives ammo to the Republican loyalists and that's the last thing I want those people to have.
Thanks for the link. I read the article and it's exactly what I was looking for. I think the author makes some good points, nitpicks in some other points, and in at least one instance doesn't understand the point Moore was making in the movie. Thanks for the info. |
-Chaloobi
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 21:08:13 [Permalink]
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I sent an email to a couple of the local theatres here in St Petersburg FL asking them why they weren't showing Farenheit 9/11.
I got this response from R/C Theatres....
quote:
The reason the film is not playing at the theatre is in no way due to politics or censorship. We operate a comercial business with the goal of making money. To do this we play the movies that we feel will draw the most people. Our Personal opinion of the content is not something that drives the decision . We actually tried very hard to work in in, but the only way to do so was to eliminate one of the prints of Spiderman opening next Wednesday. After verifying that 9/11 was going to play in the market (if we were the only one playing it the projected gross would have been higher)we decided that the best econimic decision was to stick to the already made commitment to the multiple spiderman prints. The distributor didn't do us, themselves or the public any favors by picking the this week to open the film. From a product perspective this is the most crowded week of the summer. Had the released it in the Spring or later in !
the summer the available screens would have been greater
Apparently Spiderman 2 > Farenheit 9/11
I should note that the local incarnation of R/C theatres here has 22 screens. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2004 : 05:32:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
I sent an email to a couple of the local theatres here in St Petersburg FL asking them why they weren't showing Farenheit 9/11.
I got this response from R/C Theatres....
quote:
The reason the film is not playing at the theatre is in no way due to politics or censorship. We operate a comercial business with the goal of making money. To do this we play the movies that we feel will draw the most people. Our Personal opinion of the content is not something that drives the decision . We actually tried very hard to work in in, but the only way to do so was to eliminate one of the prints of Spiderman opening next Wednesday. After verifying that 9/11 was going to play in the market (if we were the only one playing it the projected gross would have been higher)we decided that the best econimic decision was to stick to the already made commitment to the multiple spiderman prints. The distributor didn't do us, themselves or the public any favors by picking the this week to open the film. From a product perspective this is the most crowded week of the summer. Had the released it in the Spring or later in !
the summer the available screens would have been greater
Apparently Spiderman 2 > Farenheit 9/11
I should note that the local incarnation of R/C theatres here has 22 screens.
That's either a lie or these R/C theatre folks are stupid. The publicity this film has gotten almost ensures it's going to be a money maker. And 22 screens and not one available for 9/11? Please cut the bull shit. |
-Chaloobi
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2004 : 05:45:16 [Permalink]
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| Our theater is playing it. They didn't play Columbine anywhere near here. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2004 : 07:03:44 [Permalink]
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| Same here. The critics reviews on Yahoo show an A- aggregate. That's pretty good. |
-Chaloobi
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