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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 08/17/2001 : 18:16:18 [Permalink]
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Don't worry, I'm not pissed off. I wouldn't even post here if I was going to take anything too personally and certainly wouldn't have thought of making a Politics Forum 
I still think that it remains to be proven that Clinton did anything that's the business of anyone outside of his immediate family. Who knows what understanding the Clintons may have had about their marriage. I certainly don't....do you?
I also think that what you say about the Paula Jones case is not fair considering it never got anywhere. If there was any real evidence you can bet it would have gone to trial. Speculation is easy, you can catch them doing it 24 hours a day on Fox News 
 @tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2001 : 20:11:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
I'm constantly amazed at the double standard regarding Clinton and his dalliances in the White House. He should have been tarred and feathered by the NOW, but of course, they aren't for women's rights
I'm sick of hearing about womens rights. Clinton did nothing wrong, at least nothing more then anyone else does, which is not wrong because monogamy makes no sense.
I'm not a Democrat and didn't vote for him but I thought he was/is cool, as a person, not for his stupid wifes' policies.
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art. |
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WindupAtheist
New Member
41 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2001 : 20:30:28 [Permalink]
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Hey Tokyo, if the notion that men in power have extramarital affairs is so odious to you... well... you need to start paying a lot less attention to the workings of the world. Hehe.
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seb
New Member
France
40 Posts |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2001 : 06:58:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
BTW, can anyone tell me why the Starr report which was supposed to be about the Whitewater investment only contains the words "Whitewater" twice but contains the words "oral sex" over 150 times? What does a hummer in the oval office have to do with a land deal in Arkansas?
And Starr's investigation ended up costing US taxpayers (the number I heard) $53 million. To prove that:
1) People shouldn't buy beachfront property in Arkansas, and
2) People lie about sex.
Well well. I'm a lot cheaper than that. Take over a couple of my mortgage payments, and I'll even tell you what direction you should face to see sunrise! Can't get a better deal than that, huh?
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2001 : 09:02:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Is the president insane or stupid?
" 7-10-01 12:32 PM CST University Notes
Contributors: Cristina L. Borenstein, Lana Taamar
> Report: President Bush Has Lowest IQ of all Presidents of past 50 Years
> If late night TV comedy is an indicator, then there has never been as
widespread a perception that a president is not intellectually qualified for
the position he holds as there is with President GW Bush.
> In a report published Monday, the Lovenstein Institute
http://www.linkydinky.com/ of Scranton, Pennsylvania detailed its
findings of a four month study of the intelligence quotient of President
George W. Bush. Since 1973, the Lovenstein Institute has published it's
research to the education community on each new president, which includes
the famous IQ report among others.
> According to statements in the report, there have been twelve presidents
over the past 50 years, from F. D. Roosevelt to G. W. Bush who were all
rated based on scholarly achievements, writings that they alone produced
without aid of staff, their ability to speak with clarity, and several other
psychological factors which were then scored in the Swanson/Crain system of
intelligence ranking.
> The study determined the following IQs of each president as accurate to
within five percentage points:
> 147 Franklin D. Roosevelt (D)
> 132 Harry Truman (D)
> 122 Dwight D. Eisenhower (R)
> 174 John F. Kennedy (D)
> 126 Lyndon B. Johnson (D)
> 155 Richard M. Nixon (R)
> 121 Gerald Ford (R)
> 175 James E. Carter (D)
> 105 Ronald Reagan (R)
> 098 George HW Bush (R)
> 182 William J. Clinton (D)
> 091 George W. Bush (R)
> The six Republican presidents of the past 50 years had an average IQ of
115.5, with President Nixon having the highest IQ, at 155.
> President G. W. Bush was rated the lowest of all the Republicans with an
IQ of 91. The six Democrat presidents had IQs with an average of 156, with President Clinton having the highest IQ, at 182. President Lyndon B. Johnson was rated the lowest of all the Democrats with an IQ of 126.
> No president other than Carter (D) has released his actual IQ, 176.
> Among comments made concerning the specific testing of President GW Bush,
his low ratings were due to his apparent difficulty to command the English
language in public statements, his limited use of vocabulary (6,500 words
for Bush versus an average of 11,000 words for other presidents), his lack
of scholarly achievements other than a basic MBA, and an absence of any body
of work which could be studied on an intellectual basis. The complete report
documents the methods and procedures used to arrive at these ratings,
including depth of sentence structure and voice stress confidence analysis.
All the Presidents prior to George W. Bush had a least one book under
their belt, and most had written several white papers during their education
or early careers. Not so with President Bush, Dr. Lovenstein said. He has
no published works or writings, so in many ways that made it more difficult
to arrive at an assessment. We had to rely more heavily on transcripts of
his unscripted public speaking.
> The Lovenstein Institute of Scranton Pennsylvania think tank includes high
caliber historians, psychiatrists, sociologists, scientists in human
behavior, and psychologists. Among their ranks are Dr. Werner R. Lovenstein,
world-renowned sociologist, and Professor Patricia F. Dilliams, a
world-respected psychiatrist.
> This study was commissioned on February 13, 2001 and released on July 9 2001 to subscribing member universities and organizations within the education community."
A few comments of my own. I have noticed that there are those who will never give Clinton credit for anything his administration did. Why? I dunno. They just hate him.
The country had a pretty good period of growth during his administration. When he left office it looked like we were on the road to actually paying off the national debt.
Bush seems to be heading us back toward deficit spending. We shall see.
Bush has been aggressively anti science. I really don't see the compromise in his compromise on stem cell research. At the same time he is bringing back Star Wars. Hmmmm... My only solace in all of this is that he will be a one term president.
Richard Nixon would have been impeached on much more serious grounds than lying about womanizing. He obstructed justice in the cover up of the Watergate affair which was motivated by an attempt to subvert our election process by cheating. The secret bombing of Cambodia was another impeachable crime. So, he left. By the way, it is my belief that Nixon kept the Viet Nam war going to win an election. That makes him a murderer in my book.
Ronald ("I can't remember")Reagen and George ("out of the loop") Bush approved the selling of arms to a known enemy to raise money to fund the Contras after congress passed a law saying that they could not fund the Contras. The fact that neither was prosecuted for these crimes does not impress me since, as Truman said, the buck stops here. Those things happened on their clock and there is evidence that they knew about it and approved it.
And Clinton was impeached for lying about getting a blowjob. I do not approve of Clinton's behavior as a womanizer but in the total scheme of things, well....
The press used to cover for politicians who did the sort of things that Clinton did. It was considered outside of politics. Kennedy is often quoted by Republicans because using Kennedy is good marketing. We all know that he fucked around....
Again, I'm not approving of the lechery of Clinton. But as a president, it seem to me that he got the job done.
The Evil Skeptic
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous. |
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Zandermann
Skeptic Friend
USA
431 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2001 : 09:43:34 [Permalink]
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Interesting, Kil.
Almost twenty years in the education business, and I don't recall ever hearing before now that IQ could be measured in any way other than by administering an IQ test.
So I thought, wonder who these "Lovenstein Institute" folks are? Lookee what I found:quote:
THE LIE: According to a study released by the Lovenstein Institute of Scranton, Pennsylvania in 2001, shortly into the administration of president George W. Bush, Bush had the lowest IQ of any American president of the last 50 years. Some versions of the lie omit the name of Lovenstein Institute, but instead list Jennifer L. Borenstein of the Bakersville News Service as the author. Still others list Cristina L. Borenstein and Lana Taamar as authors.
THE TRUTH: The e-mail is a complete fake. There is no Lovenstein Institute in Scranton or anywhere else, no Bakersville News Service, no Jennifer L. Borenstein, Cristina L. Borenstein, or Lana Taamar, and the experts quoted don't exist. The IQ estimates given do not correspond to other estimates that have been made in the past, and it is highly suspicious that with the exception of the much-maligned Richard Nixon, every Democrat is shown with a higher score than every Republican. This lie first appeared in July 2001 on LinkyDinky.com, a satirical Web site, and the reference to "Lovenstein Institute" on the page there was linked to the LinkyDinky.com home page.
The above can be found on liEmails.com.
Hope this helps.
"If in the last few years you haven't discarded a major opinion or acquired a new one, check your pulse. You may be dead." |
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Antie
Skeptic Friend
USA
101 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2001 : 10:06:53 [Permalink]
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I've been reading this thread, and although I won't be naming names, some responses on the second page have fallen into false dilemma traps. Anyway, though, I'm glad you're not taking this topic personally.
Sorry Kil, but as Zandermann said, the report is a lie:
http://www.snopes2.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.htm
Heck, you would think that the person who wrote the report would at least know the difference between "its" and "it's."
Ian Andreas Miller. My site. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2001 : 10:58:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Sorry Kil, but as Zandermann said, the report is a lie
I stand corrected. Oh well. I should have checked that out and I have no excuse for that. As a skeptic, I am red in the face. My brother sent that to me and he is usually a good source of information. 
By the way. I think I may have performed a valuable service by posting that bogus report, if not for any of you, at least for myself. See, I really do think Bush is, ummmmm, nearly as qualified to be president as Dan Quail is. So, it was easy for me to believe that report. I wanted to believe that report. I was sitting on my critical thinking cap. My personal bias led me down the wrong path. I have reported before on how critical thinking takes some effort. Oh well. Next time a report falls into my computer that seems to support my beliefs, hopefully I'll check the info before I post....
My comments are still my comments and had nothing to do with the report.
The Evil Skeptic
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous. |
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Penyprity
Skeptic Friend
64 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2001 : 23:21:46 [Permalink]
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Im with Kil. I got that report too and all I can say is, he sure sounds like its true. He cant hold a sentence together with two hands. He has said some of the most stupid things I have ever heard a president say. I dont think he is insane. He keeps his rich friends in the oil and energy businesses happy. And since so much of his campaign money came from them, Im sure he is looking to them for his re-election run. (thats funny isnt it...I mean he would have had to have been elected to be re-elected) O.K. so my answer to the question is, he is stupid not insane. He is, after all, the President Quayle we never had. As for his morals, well who knows for sure. I read that he paid for a girlfriend of his to have an abortion, while he was in college. We know he has had a drug problem, but for some reason, its more interesting to gripe about Clintons "didnt inhale" remark but we say nothing about Bush's trip into rehab for cocaine addiction. Why is that? I think its becuase he has been such a bad president thus far, that the other stuff doesnt matter. And with Clinton..he was a really good president, so they got him on the only stuff they could. Our country had the best economic growth ever, in his 8 years. Bush is gonna set us back to the days of trickle down bullshit that left us with the biggest deficit this country has ever seen. That was one of the things that made his daddy a one term president. Well, if thats what it costs to get that selectee out of the white house...then so be it.
Make your vote count. Become a supreme court justice......Peny |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2001 : 16:30:15 [Permalink]
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Kyoto - no promise. The promise was to reduce CO2 emissions. But he didn't know at the time that CO2 did not fall under whatever it was that he thought it did.
Anyone remember more - that's what I remember.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2001 : 16:43:43 [Permalink]
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I haven't found any reference yet, but just remember every TV news channel and website that week going on about it as a "broken promise."
I'm talking mainstream news here not ultra liberal sources. I don't trust them any more than I'd trust a Libertarian magazine/TV channel/website/newspaper.
I was pretty sure I saw video of it,too. If a President makes a campaign promise it would be hard to imagine it not being recorded on video.
I also agree with Peny. But you left out the DWI. Funny how all those Republicans that got on Clinton for something that happened in the 60's suddenly have a blind eye to a serious drug problem if it's their favorite candidate. And make no mistake about it, it was a a very serious drug problem. I say was because we have to take his word for it. Yikes!
So what is this "Dubya is moral" stuff based on? Show me one single reason he deserves that?? I dare you!! 
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Greg
Skeptic Friend
USA
281 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2001 : 18:06:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
So what is this "Dubya is moral" stuff based on? Show me one single reason he deserves that?? I dare you!!
He quit booze and found God. That's good enough for me.
Greg.
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2001 : 18:10:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
He quit booze and found God. That's good enough for me.
Are you joking or are you seriuously saying that what you said there is you basis for morality? By this definition Clinton was just as moral but he found god long before Bush and never had a drinking problem, nor a cocaine addiction. Interesting.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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comradebillyboy
Skeptic Friend
USA
188 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2001 : 19:07:35 [Permalink]
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as a frequent visitor to political BBs i observe that no politico generates heat like slick willie. i hated him at first, but watching him out fox his enemies at every turn, i was finally overcome by admiration. for all the charges thrown at him, the only think that stuck was the lie about monica doing the monica on him.
on the foreign policy front clinton is so far ahead of shrub its not funny. it wouldn't be so bad if shrub would just go back to his daddy's policies.
sorry but i have an irrational distrust of pols who tell me how devout they are, or are "born again". the guy was a drunken womanizer till he was 40. daddy arranged for him to have everything all of his life. and then he gets bro to fix florida and the supremes to make sure he wins, with the lesser vote total.
if this meat head told me the sky was blue, i'd go out and look.
comrade billyboy |
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