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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 07/06/2001 : 13:17:57 [Permalink]
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There can only be one feature poll but there are many polls running at the same time. There is a forum modification that creates a page to hold all the polls in one place to reference them easily. I will look into that one.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2001 : 15:33:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
A little tangential to the topic: one of the most intelligent, informed, and logical people I know is a terrible speller who never finished college.
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Tim, I think I know who you mean. Or do you mean who I think you do? If so I agree with you.
Why do I feel my ears burning?
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Right or wrong, it's unfortunate that this person may not reach as many people as they could and maybe teach them something because they don't bother to learn how to spell properly
Some people are just missing the spelling gene. (And no, I don't mean that literally.) Awful spelling seems to run in my family. My brother is a writer. He teaches writing at a university and is only marginally better at spelling than I am...
The Evil Skeptic |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2001 : 17:25:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Why do I feel my ears burning?
I don't know. You don't think we mean YOU do you? Heh, he. I have to admit Kil, I feel more comfortable around you. Kind of superior even, at least in that subject. 
quote:
Some people are just missing the spellinggene. (And no, I don't mean that literally.) Awful spelling seems to runs in my family. My brother is a writer. He teaches writing at a university and is only marginally better at spelling than I am...
The Evil Skeptic
Well, it couldn't have rubbed off while standing next to you, I was a bad speller long before that.
I must be the mutant in my family, no one else that I know of spells worse then I.
"It's all hype, until you prove it"
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Kristin
Skeptic Friend
Canada
84 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2001 : 14:44:43 [Permalink]
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Dear me, long thread, but I feel compelled to post based on me own experiences with the public school system.
Basically as I was in a rural area, and 'above-average', or so judged after IQ testing, they put me in a 'gifted' program (consisting of me and the teacher) for 2 years that consisted of little more than language classes. I was then reading at about the Gr6 level. They then spent the next 4 years telling me to slow down when reading aloud so that the other children could follow along, getting angry when I finished the assigned novel on my own instead of reading along with the class, and basically NEGLECTING my innate interest in anything but P.E. (my parents did their very best to get me all the info they could at home, but Dad had to work and Mom was trying to raise us on a _very_ fixed budget) I would read encyclopediae at home as well as when the other kids invited me over to their places (doesn't make you many friends ;) to try and satisfy my hunger for knowledge. Moving on to Junior high to High school, my history classes were extremely distorted by the fact that I was in a French Immersion program. Apparantly the teachers interpreted this to mean we should only learn the history of the French and Acadian peoples. I know all about the settlement of my corner of the world, tons on the French Revolution and Napoleon's rule, but nothing about WWI, WWII, Vietnam, the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Potato Famine, the British occupation of most of the world, and on and on...
My P.E. teacher graded me on performance, not effort (I don't do team sports well at all, though I did try) and my grades were so low my father basically had to threaten him until he found out that the teach was grading me in comparison with my younger brother (who is a marvel at any sports, in social interactions and also not a bad student at that). After that, my grades went up, but of course still look pretty skewed when you average out gr 9-12 for college applications.
My Chemistry teacher was, I think, my favorite, always tried to answer questions but was truthful when he could not, rather than scoffing, and he gave candies for good questions! (I have been greatly saddened to learn he is suffering from a mental illness now). My Bio teacher hated me, I'm sure, for all my questions were answered with blustering and disavowals and 'you don't need to know that'. My Math/Calc/Physics teacher was a very intelligent man, but I could not learn from him. I honestly can't say why, as I love physics, but I recieved a very low grade in that class. (He used to let us take tests home regularly, almost noone ever finished one during class time.)
In short, I don't think I'll trust my children to public school at all. I may very well try to educate them myself, and send them to private schools for advanced courses.
Anyways, first post, ignore the babble if you think it's offtopic.
Good judgement comes from experience: experience comes from bad judgement. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2001 : 01:42:11 [Permalink]
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In short, I don't think I'll trust my children to public school at all. I may very well try to educate them myself, and send them to private schools for advanced courses.
Public schools are not good but then that depends on where you are talking about. Here in Los Angeles from grammar school, Jr. high and high school they are really bad but I think the Junior colleges are very good at least THEY used to be. However private schools are only better then public IF a child is average. If they have special needs then they are terrible too.
Our story is, that my son by the age of 3 was reading. He taught himself. It's like he just did it, by looking at things around him. I realized he soon needed to be in school because I didn't have enough knowledge to teach him all he needed to know. We took him to a private school(because he was too young to go to public school) but after a year there the director called us to the office and almost yelled at us to stop 'pushing' him to read and to be advanced. We didn't do anything to make him want to learn. That and the fact that we could no longer afford the cost of the school we took him out. Then I looked for the best public school I could find in the area. Luck and good fortune put him in a class with a teacher who asked if he could be tested for the gifted program. She was a great person to be that understanding. Not like the idiot director of the PRIVATE school.
His grammar school days were ok and fullfilling, except for a couple of teachers who were not very good. Jr. high was alright but high school was a desaster. LAUSD is so messed up they don't know what the hell they are doing. They take tax money from us but don't improve the schools. He was not able to stay in the highly gifted program because there was not enough space. Perhaps we could have found another private school that would have been suitable but we sure as hell couldn't have paid for it. A mind IS a terrible thing to waste.
VHEMT |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2001 : 11:29:14 [Permalink]
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Snake, so what finally happened? You stopped the story in the middle! How's the kid doing now? Were you able to find a teacher to keep him interested in education?
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2001 : 21:37:21 [Permalink]
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Snake, so what finally happened? You stopped the story in the middle! How's the kid doing now? Were you able to find a teacher to keep him interested in education?
Lisa
Oh! Thanks for asking, didn't want to bore anyone with too much personal information.
He just graduated high school.
The powers that be (government officials) have been messing around with the school district here in Los Angeles, changing personal and policies. IMO it's hasn't and is not going to help but that's another topic.
In grammar school, once a child gets in the HGM(highly gifted magnet) program he stays in until Jr. high school, then it goes to a lottery. There are only so many openings so they put everyones name in a 'hat'. Skylar didn't get in the 1st pick but I kept complaining and not because of it but lol, I guess in spite of it he finally did get in the program at the last minute[he was on a waiting list]. Then the lottery starts over again when one starts high school. The only way one can get in that particular magnet program is to qualify with an IQ test. It's not like the others [art, science, zoo, etc.] where all you have to do is sign up. The gifted program used to be under special education because these kids DO need extra attention just like the disabled kids do but somewhere along the line they changed the rules. Each semester, IF or when a child leaves and a space opens up the next person on the list gets in. He was waiting over 2 semesters and finally in 12th grade he did get in but I felt it was such a waste of time and brain power for him not to be in from the beginning of high school. They get so much more out of their education by being in it.
I just feel angry with LAUSD because my tax money was not going to pay for the education he needed and was entitled to.
I have to admit while out of the program in high school he did continue to take advanced classes but it was like being outside looking in. And not getting all the advantages of actually being in with the other kids. He slacked off and while his grades were above still average, he could have done better. His words not only mine.
As of now he's going to be going to a local Jr. College and then transfer to a 4 year school.
Oh and another thing I'm VERY angry about is affirmative action which played a part in his not getting in the program.
Now because of what happened in the schools, I'M ''ON THE LIST''. Everyone knows my name from local politics to Sacramento. Heh he. And they haven't heard the last, either.
Whoops sorry, got carried away, just so angry about kids[everywhere] not getting good educations now days. That is to say, not teaching to a childs full potential. If I left anything out, ask again.
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2001 : 10:12:54 [Permalink]
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Lemme see, Skylar's bright, so he has to enter a lottery to receive a quality education. Snake, I can see why you'd keep the tar heated up. While it's true that many Americans will vote their tax money to the nice, safe, middle of the road mediocre issues, people should wake up and look at the bigger picture. The bright kids of today will be the adults of tomorrow who will be solving our problems. No child should be pushed, but in my experience, an intelligent child who is challenged is happier about the whole education experience.
Trish had an interesting post about her daughter's education. She actually yanked her kid out of a school because the teacher felt it was too much trouble to spend a little extra energy on an advanced child.
Poor Skylar! He must have been bored out of his mind in regular classes. I hope his college instructors have enough sense to recognize and develope his potential. Wish the kid luck for me.
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2001 : 01:25:38 [Permalink]
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I'm afraid Caity may be in the same shoes as Skylar was. She's starting back to public schools this next school year. $2500/year is just too much money on my budget. Now I have to scramble to get her into the gifted and talented program. She has to take a few tests before school starts. Hopefully they take into account that right now her favorite subject is Einsteins Theory of Relativity. (Yes, her choice in reading material....)
Snake, this woman actually believed that girls should learn language arts and boys should learn math and science. She was highly offended that a child didn't fit into her neat little catergories. But my kid learned to multiply before she learned to read (go figure - I still have trouble with addition and subtraction). ABCs and reading have never interested her. Numbers on the other hand are fascinating to her. I read for recreation - she does math.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2001 : 01:37:47 [Permalink]
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...right now her favorite subject is Einsteins Theory of Relativity. (Yes, her choice in reading material....)
Numbers on the other hand are fascinating to her. I read for recreation - she does math.
Yes! Good for her! 
Not all change is progress. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2001 : 02:39:53 [Permalink]
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Lemme see, Skylar's bright, so he has to enter a lottery to receive a quality education. Snake, I can see why you'd keep the tar heated up.
Of course there's more to the story, all the idiot things I was told, to get me to 'go away', the history of the program, and more but yeah, that about sums it up, Los Angeles doesn't know how to teach it's kids.
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While it's true that many Americans will vote their tax money to the nice, safe, middle of the road mediocre issues, people should wake up and look at the bigger picture. The bright kids of today will be the adults of tomorrow who will be solving our problems. No child should be pushed, but in my experience, an intelligent child who is challenged is happier about the whole education experience.
Not just the bright kids. I think everyone can and should be raised to a higher level. Not pushed of course but challenged, as you said.
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Trish had an interesting post about her daughter's education. She actually yanked her kid out of a school because the teacher felt it was too much trouble to spend a little extra energy on an advanced child.
Poor Skylar! He must have been bored out of his mind in regular classes.
The teachers in the gifted classes are supposed to be trained to understand these kids. It's good when it works. It's unfortunate that not enough teachers recognize a bright student. That's why I said before, the teacher who asked to have him tested, I will always be greatful to her. Not having had experience with kids, to me he was normal to be reading at 3. Then people started telling me it's not. So he would have been bored. And yes, he was bored in early high school, that's why he slacked off.
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I hope his college instructors have enough sense to recognize and develope his potential. Wish the kid luck for me.
Lisa
Thank you. LOL, I would like to wish him your luck but if he knew I was talking about him, he'd kill me. ha ha. College SHOULD be different, I think. Students are there because they want to be, I'm assuming so I think they are challenged and would want to study. Let's hope. BUT if the level of education is poor prior to college then the level of knowledge of the college teachers is not a high standard either. We are going down hill.
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2001 : 03:16:34 [Permalink]
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I'm afraid Caity may be in the same shoes as Skylar was. She's starting back to public schools this next school year. $2500/year is just too much money on my budget.
You mean $2500, that's for a private school? If so that's damn cheap. As I recall it was over $7000 at the school Skylar was going to and that was 12 years ago. Not the most expensive school either.
If you like that school, have you asked about a scholarship?
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Now I have to scramble to get her into the gifted and talented program. She has to take a few tests before school starts. Hopefully they take into account that right now her favorite subject is Einsteins Theory of Relativity. (Yes, her choice in reading material....)
If you are talking about an IQ test, in LAUSD a school psychologist has to give the test, not allowed to have a private one do it. Maybe in your area it's different. They test for several areas [math, science, language, reasoning, etc.] and then average them to get the one IQ score.
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Snake, this woman actually believed that girls should learn language arts and boys should learn math and science. She was highly offended that a child didn't fit into her neat little catergories. But my kid learned to multiply before she learned to read (go figure - I still have trouble with addition and subtraction).
In Skylars group there were about equal #'s of girls and boys, I think. More Asians and surprisingly a lot of 'hafies'. More then the average in a normal population. Skylar is a halfie too.
The social and financial situations of the parents varied as did the intellect and religion but almost all were attentive to their kids. It did seem that more often then not the parents were Freethinkers but there were a few religious people. Many of the parents were professionals but all the parents had the same issues, that the kids really did know more then we did, lol. Difficult to deal with kids like that. You can't argue, debate or reason with them. They are one(or more) step ahead of you.
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ABCs and reading have never interested her. Numbers on the other hand are fascinating to her. I read for recreation - she does math.
The scores are different in each category. Skylar was higher in language skills then math. Surprising for a Chinaman and half Jew. LOL but he's going into business anyway, so he says, for now. All he thinks about is money, damn!
Sounds like you are on top of everything. Don't let anyone tell you what to do if it doesn't sound 'right'. Many people don't know how to handle these situations and give you the run around. Stand your ground.
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2001 : 08:12:41 [Permalink]
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We don't have any kids, so I can't reply to that (yet). But this does bring to mind my own experiences.
I was first put into the G&T program in the second grade (this would be 1983ish). It was a program in which one went to normal classes most of the week, but maybe one day out of the week one would go to the G&T class (or maybe it was 1 hour a day, I forget).
The only thing I remember, and I remember very clearly, because I still shake my head in amazement and dismay, is that my regular teacher, once she found out I was in the G&T program, treated me with total contempt! Every little thing me as an 8 year old boy did wrong, she would sneer and threaten to take me out of 'that special class' I was in. Of course, I never thought of it back then as anything out of the ordinary, but in looking back, I just can't believe a teacher would have that kind of attitude. Instead of encouraging me, she treated me like I was some kind of undeserving spoiled brat, for no other reason than that I was entered into that program.
I wonder how prevalent this kind of behavior is in schools, and how many kids miss out because of it.
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Ma gavte la nata! |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2001 : 14:07:21 [Permalink]
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Instead of encouraging me, she treated me like I was some kind of undeserving spoiled brat, for no other reason than that I was entered into that program.
I wonder how prevalent this kind of behavior is in schools, and how many kids miss out because of it.
Good thing you asked.
1st of all, I'm not saying I have a high IQ, I don't know. But I always did 'see' things differently then others while growing up. So IQ or not, students shouldn't be treated the same. Not until Skylar started the program did things 'click' for me. The things he did and the way the program was designed to bring out the talent the kids have, it all came together, the thoughts I'd had as a child and how I was pushed aside instead of encouraged because there was nothing like that then. I don't mean a gifted program only, there wasn't that but just the recognition that all kids need to be placed where they can get the proper education for their needs instead of lumping them all together. (and holding them back because they can't spell because they see letters backwards Whoops!)
The parents of the HGM have their own group. Once at a meeting someone brought out the fact that people think because you have a gifted kid, you must be rich or have some kind of advantage in life. NO, it just happens. They still don't know what exactly makes the brain act like that.
In grammar school, the whole school knows who the kids are in the 'special program' they are isolated in a sense because they are in their own classroom even though they are on the same campus and play in the same yard. This one little kid, a stereo type, skinny and smaller then the rest. I developed a friendship with him and when I came to pick up Skylar after school George would always come up to me and we'd talk about astronomy. He was in 2nd grade. I once wanted to be an astronomer so it was of interest to me but the kid quoted Sagan. Sheesh that was beyond anything I could discuss with him. If I saw someone picking on him, I'd go over and say something but who knows what happened all the other times I wasn't there?
The HGM parents group also thought people thought of them as elitists, I don't think most were. They wanted the best for their child and did what they had to. We had meeting to develop fund raising activities and pin point where the money was needed.
During grammar school I think the kids accepted they were in a tight knit group so they were not missing out on things. They had each other. They interacted with the other students but did have their own activities also.
When we found out Skylar was eligible to be in the program, it was a difficult decision to make, to put him in or not. He'd go through school with only the same kids. Not have the same experience as 'normal' kids. I thought, if he's so smart he'll learn on his own anyway but finally we did put him in and although there are some regrets and wondering what would have happened it we didn't, I think it was a good idea. There were some outstanding teachers and the advanced knowledge he got then, has made him what he is today. LOL, a spoiled brat, na.....he's just a teenager doing what they do, I guess!
I'm kind of rambling..... the answer is yes! Many kids do miss out (on getting the full potential of their education) for various reasons. Teachers still don't understand. I think you have to be lucky to get a teacher, as Skylar did, who sees that 'something' in the child. A teacher who is dedicated to the job and not bias. I also think it is true that some teachers resent those kids or don't want the trouble of dealing with them. People think there's something snobby about being 'smart'. The kids can't help what's in their brain. From what I saw, the parents DIDN'T push the kids, it's just natural. You can tell the difference between kids who recite facts and appear clever and those who are reasoning. Some people and teachers resent kids asking questions that they can't answer.
Maybe things have changed but that's how it was the last 11 years that Skylar was in LAUSD's gifted program.
Now that I think of it, it's like my philosophy of society and life in general, one has to be in the right place at the right time. And if you know the right people and/or are aggressive you get what you want.
Hope that answered something, sorry about meandering all over the place.
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2001 : 16:04:04 [Permalink]
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If you are talking about an IQ test, in LAUSD a school psychologist has to give the test, not allowed to have a private one do it. Maybe in your area it's different. They test for several areas [math, science, language, reasoning, etc.] and then average them to get the one IQ score.
No these tests are through the school district. But I will only be given two weeks to get the appointment for the test and the results.
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You mean $2500, that's for a private school? If so that's damn cheap. As I recall it was over $7000 at the school Skylar was going to and that was 12 years ago. Not the most expensive school either.
If you like that school, have you asked about a scholarship?
Unfortunately, the best school in the area for mathematics is a religious school. But because I am an atheist I don't qualify for their tuition assistance program. I just took a $7/hour pay cut to get a job - period. So my income has dropped to below 30K/year again. I still won't qualify for any assistance (I make too much). Her father takes no responsibility - so I can not get him to pay her tuition.
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The scores are different in each category. Skylar was higher in language skills then math. Surprising for a Chinaman and half Jew. LOL but he's going into business anyway, so he says, for now. All he thinks about is money, damn!
Sounds like you are on top of everything. Don't let anyone tell you what to do if it doesn't sound 'right'. Many people don't know how to handle these situations and give you the run around. Stand your ground.
Her first grade teacher wanted her to take the tests - but figured personality wise she would be overpowered by the other students. So she was one step back to begin with. She wouldn't even recommend she take the tests. Then her second grade teacher should have been put out to pasture. Other private schools are across town from me - so those are out of the question. Winter driving here and I wouldn't want to drive every morning 40+ miles to get my kid to school in a snow storm. I can't afford to move into that area, the houses start at 750K.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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