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satans_mom
Skeptic Friend
USA
148 Posts |
 Posted - 06/26/2004 : 14:17:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
quote:
I also know a woman who has had three abortions. She's a well-adjusted, happy woman. She simply isn't ready for kids. When she's ready, I think she'll make a good mom.
How many substances does so abuse and we can judge her happiness by how many anti-depressants she is taking!
I'd like to mention that was a very short-sighted, accusational thing for you to say. And furthermore, antidepressants don't make people happy. They make people antidepressed. Which usually means, it makes them antiemotional.
Just because she's a happy woman and also has done things that you would consider "against the name of God and immoral" doesn't mean she's taking drugs to rid herself of the pain of abortion that only exists to people that aren't capable of handling that traumatic situation without severeties of emotion. I'm a VERY content person with myself, and I've had one abortion already. And guess what? I take no pills whatsoever-- no over the counter or prescription pills.
That must mean I'm a drug addict, right? Or I worship the devil? What OTHER accusations are you capable of making, Verlch? According to many posts you have already made, that's all you seem to say.
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Yo mama's so fat, she's on both sides of the family.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2004 : 21:56:04 [Permalink]
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Trish wrote:quote:
Unless SFN has maintained the archives from more than the past year, the information is lost to me, completely.
Trish, please go to the search page, type "abortion" in under "search for," make sure the checkbox next to "archived posts" is checked, change "search by member" to read "Trish," and then click "Search." When I do so, I get two pages of results, going back to at least May of 2001. There are a lot of pages to wade through, however. You'll probably have better luck than I in figuring out which thread(s) are pertinent.
And I'm not saying the above instead of accepting your offer of an article. Gimme another day or so of consideration, if you don't mind. I'll send you a PM. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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steinhenge
Skeptic Friend
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2004 : 23:58:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Renae
All women do NOT have this desire....
As a footnote to Renae's post I'd just like to add some info about my fiancée. She's been a public school teacher for six full years now; the first three were spent teaching high school and the last three teaching elementary school (k-5. She teaches art and sees half of the school population each week.). She absolutely loves kids, both very young as well as teens, but she let me know early on that child-rearing is not in her future in any way. She has no desire to have children of her own at all. Teaching has not changed this one bit.
Just wanted to toss an example into the pot.
(edited for idiotic spelling... it's not like I'm dating an English teacher, after all. ) |
| Edited by - steinhenge on 06/27/2004 00:25:28 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2004 : 04:11:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
quote:
I also know a woman who has had three abortions. She's a well-adjusted, happy woman. She simply isn't ready for kids. When she's ready, I think she'll make a good mom.
How many substances does so abuse and we can judge her happiness by how many anti-depressants she is taking!
You are a judgemental ass. Presumtious more than anyone I've ever met. You're a disgrace for Christianity. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 07/06/2004 20:49:09 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2004 : 17:46:32 [Permalink]
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pathetic.... just pathetic verlch.
You were abused as a child weren't you verlch? |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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ethan
New Member
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2004 : 20:22:15 [Permalink]
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Renae,
on the contrary, it is not I who is at fault for lying. Your exaggerations and delusions about the pro-life movement are obvious in large part because of your misrepresentation of crisis pregnancy centers as an alternative to an abortion clinic. Since it's you talking and you've apparently experienced every aspect and side of the abortion issue maybe you don't know that thousands of women every year seek out help from centers that care about them and their needs and don't lie to them. In most cases the babies are given up for adoption to parents who want them, or if in the case the mother goes through counseling and decides she wants to keep the baby, they spend countless hours with her in training and providing her with what she needs both physically and emotionally, all as volunteer work. This can hardly be said for planned parenthood, who's first option is nearly always (and notice I said nearly, so you don't think I'm projecting (seems you like that word)stresses an abortion as the first option. We obviously run in different circles as far as women who have been effected by it, and that part seems to be a pretty sensitive issue for you as far as discussion, so if you'd like we don't have to talk about that part. I have two sisters who have both volunteered at crisis pregnancy centers, so I'm not speaking from ignorance when I say that these places are often safe havens for women in distress over what to do, and have some of the most loving and sensitive counseling available. I just rescanned all that I've said to make sure I didn't overstate anything or contribute any more "lies," I think I'm all set. |
ethan |
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2004 : 09:56:41 [Permalink]
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Ethan, Planned Parenthood's main goal isn't abortion; it's family planning. They offer a wide range of women's health services, including Pap smears, pelvic exams, IUD fittings, etc. Abortion is one of many services they provide. They offer many of these services at a reduced cost, so that poor or uninsured women have access to the health services they need.
If your sisters work in "crisis pregnancy centers" (barf), they're futhering their own agenda--and to my ears it sounds like a patronizing one. Women are capable of making decisions and living with the consequences; they don't need self-righteous Bible-wavers leading them anywhere.
True counseling does not have an agenda, no matter how loving or sensitive the counselor may be (and I believe many Christian counselors are very loving). Good counseling helps a woman come to her own personal truths and self-acceptance. Furthering the Religious Right's propaganda machine is NOT good counseling nor good public health. Ugh. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2004 : 16:04:07 [Permalink]
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Ethan, go educate yourself.
http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/jan_feb97/morris.html |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2004 : 18:01:45 [Permalink]
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In some cases, an abortion can save the woman's life. In my case, after giving birth to a first child, I had a legal hysterectomy for birth control to prevent conception. At the time, I could find no doctor who would tie my fallopian tubes. I was married to a man who was Rh positive and I was Rh negative. In those days having a second child (for an Rh negative mother married to an Rh positive father) almost certainly would have ended the life of the mother (and probably the child).
I was not about ready to die in childbirth just because of the creeps who think that women should have no procreative rights concerning their own bodies. |
"Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve about these suns in a manner similar to the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings inhabit these worlds."
Giordano Bruno
(Burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church Inquisition in 1600) |
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ethan
New Member
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2004 : 20:31:30 [Permalink]
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Renae,
I'm not sure if you've ever been to one of these crisis pregnancy centers of which you speak, but I'd be shocked if you had, and you were still saying these things. "Obstructing women seeking abortions" is a pretty strong accusation to make against a nationwide organization that you know little or nothing about. Let me inform you a little bit about what their contributions ARE since I've had some first hand involvement as well as having two sisters who both have worked closely with the centers. I'm not sure if you've ever seen the billboards with the phone numbers for women who are in distress and not knowing what to do but that's exactly what it is, "Crisis" pregnancy centers. Completely voluntary (on both sides), completely confidential, and completely respectful of the womens' emotions, fears and needs. The women are counseled (counsel that they seek to begin with) on what the best thing is for the baby (abortion being the option if the woman decides to leave the center), whether it's adoption or learning how to raise the baby if that's what they desire. The women not only are instructed in this, but they are counseled and there physical needs are met and fund raisers are put on for whatever the women need to raise the baby in the best way. So before you question mine and similar "pro-lifers" ethics and call them disgusting maybe you should do a small amount of research into how accurate your accusations are. And in case you have some horrid things to say about adoption, my brother is adopted and I plan to adopt myself, and some wonderful things come from it.
I'd appreciate it if you weren't so extreme with your "half-truths and lies" statements and acting like poor persecuted you, and instead tried to have a good discussion |
ethan |
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ethan
New Member
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2004 : 20:51:27 [Permalink]
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This is to both Renae and Verlch, not that I'm putting Renae in the same category as verlch because he's in his own little world. Verlch, you make give a bad name to a lot of people with you horrid little tirades and they need to stop.
Renae I take great offense to you in one sentence valuing christian counseling and in another calling these centers bible wavers and acting in disgust toward them. There seems to be some sort of personal vendetta you have against someone or some organization because I don't understand the animosity and hypocrisy in your two statements. And because you do seem like someone who thinks things through it surprises me that you'd come out with Verlch type statements. It also surprises me that you're putting words in my mouth. As far as I remember and in scanning my post I don't remember saying that planned parenthood only does abortions, because that would be ignorant and foolish of me. On the contrary there are a lot of clinics that only do abortions. look it up. That was what I was speaking of. |
ethan |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2004 : 22:44:19 [Permalink]
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| Ethan, may I suggest the use of paragraphs to delineate separate lines of thought? Would make your posts a tad easier to read. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Stargirl
Skeptic Friend
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2004 : 17:06:53 [Permalink]
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Folks it's getting worse not only is the religious right working at a fevered pitch to stop legal abortions they are also working to end access to contraceptives. And according to this article in Prevention magazine they're making inroads in passing conscience clauses for pharmacists, three states so far allow pharmacists to refuse to fill prescriptions for birth control pills. An increasing number of doctors are also refusing to prescribe birth control pills because they say they prevent a fertilized egg from being implanted into the uterine lining.
quote:
But anti-Pill doctors and pharmacists say life begins sooner, at fertilization. Sloughing off a fertilized egg, in their view, is a "chemical abortion."
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If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him - Voltaire |
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2004 : 18:18:47 [Permalink]
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Ahem.
Many "Crisis Pregnancy Centers" who do not provide abortion are listed under "Abortion" in the phone book. (At least, they used to be; laws may have changed to prevent this.) This is the beginning of their sneakiness. Gawd, I do hate a sneak.
Some "crisis pregnancies" SHOULD end in abortion, not adoption or keeping the baby. A "Crisis Pregnancy Center" who does not present the abortion option is furthering their own agenda and not providing either true counseling or public health services. This is unethical unless they advertise up front that their goal is to prevent an abortion.
I can believe that some crisis pregnancy "counselors" are loving people while also believing that they are misguided at best and unethical and self-serving at worst. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, remember? Besides, if they're futhering their own beliefs, religious or otherwise, they're not acting in the woman's best interest (and it's debatable whether or not they act in the fetus' best interest.)
I guess I'm tired of Christians furthering and sometimes imposing their beliefs on others, while hiding behind humanitarian motives which may or may not be present. It's kind of like having a narcissistic lover that pleases you only so that he looks like a stud. (yes, that's a weird reference, but still.)
If you don't believe me that some "pregnancy centers" are sneaky and disgusting...
http://www.fwhc.org/abortion/fake.htm
http://www.womensmedcenter.com/faqs/consumerwatch.asp
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ethan
New Member
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2004 : 18:06:34 [Permalink]
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| well renae i think by that last post it's pretty obvious that you're a bit disillusioned, broad, judgemental, and maybe even deceiving yourself about reality a little. i didn't really read too much that made me even want to respond. |
ethan |
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