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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 10/22/2004 : 18:08:33 [Permalink]
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Does anyone besides me see some similairities between how these investment people are acting, and how the fundies act when questioned?
It's rather facinating, actually. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2004 : 06:55:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by dominickolas
Lapcus,
I really don't understand what you are doing here? There is no way to know for certain if PIPS is real without investing, and then pulling out your initial investment. Does this sound like something a skeptic (note the name of the forum here) would do? So no amount of words you say will change their minds. In all my research on pips, I have only found two kinds of people, people who say they've made money, and people who say it can't be true, but no one has ever said they lost money. And honestly do you think if people had lost money they wouldn't be complaining all over the internet?? Lapcus, I know you are defending yourself because it seems silly to you that otheres don't "believe", well again, will you look where you are posting?!?! All the best to you and all on this forum!
And here we probably have another three-and-outer.
Argumentum ad ignorantum. Some people will post that they have their "profits" still in their "accounts". Some have cash payouts greater than their original investment. (typical of early investors of a Ponzi scheme)
It is possible to find out whether PIPS is genuine or not if PIPS makes full financial disclosure of all holdings in line with prospectus strictures placed by the SEC. Since PIPS does not have such a prospectus and their claims of profit at low risk are so tremendously high, it is very likely it is a Ponzi scheme.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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dominickolas
New Member
4 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2004 : 11:06:16 [Permalink]
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| I agree No amount of testimonials proves anything! ANd even if the guy next to you shows you a check, there is no guarentee that would mean the same for you. Pips is not selling shares of something on Nasdaq where a share is a share. Further on the website you learn it is not even an investment, but a loan. An unguarenteed loan, so you have no recourse if they don't pay you back, they say right on the site there is no guarentee. SO it would take a leap of faith. But like I said last time, I can't find anyone who claims not to be paid. |
Maybe I'm skeptical of you too! |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2004 : 12:03:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by dominickolas
I agree No amount of testimonials proves anything! ANd even if the guy next to you shows you a check, there is no guarentee that would mean the same for you. Pips is not selling shares of something on Nasdaq where a share is a share. Further on the website you learn it is not even an investment, but a loan. An unguarenteed loan, so you have no recourse if they don't pay you back, they say right on the site there is no guarentee. SO it would take a leap of faith. But like I said last time, I can't find anyone who claims not to be paid.
Neither are other investment programs such as Fidelity. They use the money you give them to buy specific shares/bonds/real estate ventures that are managed by the fund directors. In essence, it is what PIPS claims to be. They still have to show their holdings through prospecti per the FEC.
You can't find anyone who hasn't been paid....yet. It is still likely to be a Ponzi scheme as the level of return is extremely high and the following claim from their website "PIPS is a no fail system" indicates low/no risk. Even their disclaimer claims that " In a major market crash or worldwide economic disaster there is a risk that you could lose your funds." Again, most claimants of major gains still base it on "account balances" not cash in hand.
With a loan, there are instruments of trust executed. This isn't even a loan. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2004 : 07:44:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by dominickolas
ANd even if the guy next to you shows you a check, there is no guarentee that would mean the same for you.
Waving a check in the face of the next guy is something anyone could do. The problem starts when you want to cash it in at the bank...
That is one of the problems I see with this setup. A virtual internet account is just that: Virtual. What is the guarantee that the virtual money can be cashed in for real? |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Happy
New Member
5 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2004 : 01:45:18 [Permalink]
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Hi all,
Found this thread yesterday and thought it very interesting. Lapcus, you are trying your best to explain, but you're outnumbered... hard to keep up answering all the questions.
The thing is that I myself is a very happy investor in PIPS. I am not one of the early ones, I joined only about 6 months ago. But I made a large additional investment, and yes, I have gotten it all back and am now making more every month from this than I make from my well-paid job. As soon as I have made enough to diversify my stream of income, I will quit my job and do something I like doing. Why diversify if I believe in the program? Because it IS high risk, and no profit is GUARANTEED. So why did I invest if there are no guarantees? Because of all the people I personally know that has been paid ROI every trading day as promised, and withdrawn real cash in their hand.
For me it is the only "gambling" I have ever done... I don't spend money in the casino etc. And I am very happy I chose this particular program to do my gambling in, since I have made back a lot more than I invested. Someone mentioned that accepting money from such a program is actually blood money, and that you would be stealing. I think that is a pretty outrageous statement. No one has had a missing payment yet, and the program has been running and paying for 18 months (with no signs of failing).
Nothing lasts forever, and probably not the 2% program in PIPS either. But I am pretty confident that a shutdown of the program will be conducted in a way that no member will loose money invested, just potential future income.
Just my 2'c
Happy |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2004 : 02:38:56 [Permalink]
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Anybody up for a game of Three Card Monte? I'm dealin'!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2004 : 02:52:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Happy
Found this thread yesterday and thought it very interesting. Lapcus, you are trying your best to explain, but you're outnumbered... hard to keep up answering all the questions.
So Lapcus, you are to the point where you're creating mulitple screen names? Wow.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Happy
New Member
5 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2004 : 03:17:52 [Permalink]
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FYI, I am a new user, registered today. I have no idea who Lapcus is, just noticed his postings along with all the others.
Just found the discussion interesting, and wanted to share my thoughts. Well, can't say I got a warm welcome as a new member to the forum. If you doubt my identity, well there's not much I can or want to do about it.
I thought this forum was to share information about a lot of different issues... maybe I was wrong. Have been browsing some other threads and been enjoying the sharing of different opinions.
Now I know that I'd better not post if I have some information going against the mainstream idea.
Best regards
Happy (new member from Sweden) |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2004 : 04:07:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Now I know that I'd better not post if I have some information going against the mainstream idea.
Not at all. But it behooves us, thee and me and we, to be sure and add some supporting evidence to the claim. Ancedotes ain't evidence.
I find it a bit odd that exactly no personal info is in the profiles of our investor friends. It's not required, of course, nor should it be, but it would be nice to have a little background.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Happy
New Member
5 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2004 : 04:29:21 [Permalink]
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I never bother to register more than whats required when being new to a forum. I have registered in many forums over the years, but only hang on to the ones that I find interesting in the long run. Then there is plenty of time to add more user information. If someone finds this fishy, well not my problem.
I am not interested in presenting evidence to anyone. Why should I? That's very private information about my finances. I would never scan a copy of my bank statement and put it out on the Internet for everyone to see. My investment in Pips is just that, an investment, and doesn't require recruiting. I hate MLM:s, have many times been pestered by members trying to recruite me. Since I hate selling things, I would never join something that demands recruiting.
My original post was just meant to second the point made by Lapcus; there are people profiting from PIPS and who are happy investors.
It's perfectly OK/good to be skeptic and I am the first to advocate that you should never invest money that, if lost, would seriously affect your finances. When I invested in PIPS, I decided to regard it as "lost", until I made it back. Which I have now and much more.
So everyone who doesn't feel a desire to gamble a little with their extra money, do NOT invest in anything that doesn't give a guaranteed income!
As for me, I am happy with my financial desicions so far :-)
Best regards
Happy |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2004 : 06:05:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Happy
Hi all,
Found this thread yesterday and thought it very interesting. Lapcus, you are trying your best to explain, but you're outnumbered... hard to keep up answering all the questions.
The thing is that I myself is a very happy investor in PIPS. I am not one of the early ones, I joined only about 6 months ago. But I made a large additional investment, and yes, I have gotten it all back and am now making more every month from this than I make from my well-paid job. As soon as I have made enough to diversify my stream of income, I will quit my job and do something I like doing. Why diversify if I believe in the program? Because it IS high risk, and no profit is GUARANTEED. So why did I invest if there are no guarantees? Because of all the people I personally know that has been paid ROI every trading day as promised, and withdrawn real cash in their hand.
For me it is the only "gambling" I have ever done... I don't spend money in the casino etc. And I am very happy I chose this particular program to do my gambling in, since I have made back a lot more than I invested. Someone mentioned that accepting money from such a program is actually blood money, and that you would be stealing. I think that is a pretty outrageous statement. No one has had a missing payment yet, and the program has been running and paying for 18 months (with no signs of failing).
Nothing lasts forever, and probably not the 2% program in PIPS either. But I am pretty confident that a shutdown of the program will be conducted in a way that no member will loose money invested, just potential future income.
Just my 2'c
Happy
Longevity of a scam is not an indicator of validity. Again, Ponzi schemes will pay "happy investors" more than they take in from them. In this case, racking up virtual profits for all.
Your confidence that a shutdown of the scheme won't cost anyone money is nieve.
2% daily ROI is completely unsustainable. Pyramid schemes and Ponzi schemes often times last for years. There were several Ponzi schemes which have lasted 20 years or more.
http://discuss.agonist.org/yabbse/index.php?board=20;action=display;threadid=16583;start=0#msg179414
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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Happy
New Member
5 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2004 : 07:41:01 [Permalink]
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Valiant Dancer,
Sorry, as English is not my mother tongue, I didn't understand all in your posting: "Your confidence that a shutdown of the scheme won't cost anyone money is nieve"
What does "nieve" mean?
To clarify my comment; my personal theory is that if PI would choose to shut down the 2% program, it would be in this manner: Stop the current possibility to reinvest ROI, therefore you cannot buy more units (1 unit=25 USD). The units expire automatically after 180 days, so after this period of time without reinvesting, everyone would have been paid back their original investment + some profit.
If the whole system crashes, then of course people would loose money. But that was not what I was talking about. I was referring to a controlled close-down, AND it was (and is) my personal theory).
Your statement that a "ponzi" could go on for 20 years makes me happy. If PIPS is a Ponzi, and lasts for 20 years, I will be VERY rich!
Virtual money? Unless I am high on drugs, the actual bills that I have so far taken out from my DC certainly feels real in my hand ;-)
Best regards
Happy |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2004 : 07:51:31 [Permalink]
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Happy ol' sport, none of us are at all interested in your personal finances. It would be most innappropate to even ask.
What we would like to see is a prospectus (is that the correct word?) of the company running the show. What exactly are they doing with their investor's money?
Any legitimate firm will gladly hand over exactly that to any prospective investor or his agent. Thus far, all you and others have given us are pretty ancedotes.
Ancedotes, however pleasing to the ear, eye and inner spirit, don't put bread & beans on the table.
As for not giving any info in your profile, no big deal. But it would be interesting to know if you ride a motorcycle, drink beer on Sat. night, raise exotic goldfish, work in a salt mine, are ordained by the Universal Life Church, -- y'know, that sort of thing. I have noticed that those who tell us the least about themselves ane often the ones who, for lack of a better term, do 'hit & run' postings. I do hope you are more together than that.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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