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bjones
Skeptic Friend
Australia
82 Posts |
 Posted - 08/28/2001 : 20:42:05
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Poll Question:
What are your views on cryonic suspension?
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Poll Status:
Locked »» |
Total Votes: 0 counted »» |
Last Vote:
never |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
 Posted - 08/29/2001 : 00:07:20 [Permalink]
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Could you please edit your post? The sentences weren't complete.
All the reading I've done on cyrogenic freezing has labeled it as bunk. We don't have the technology to freeze and revive a healthy human, let alone a sick one.
Lisa
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bestonnet_00
Skeptic Friend
Australia
358 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2001 : 00:17:34 [Permalink]
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To revive them we would need nano-tech.
We don't have it now. But those frozen will still be able to be revived by the time we do. In fact provided nano-tech is avilable and the person prepared well for freezing it is pretty likely to succeed.
Radioactive GM Crops.
Slightly above background.
Safe to eat.
But no activist would dare rip it out.
As they think it gives them cancer. |
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bjones
Skeptic Friend
Australia
82 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2001 : 16:01:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Could you please edit your post? The sentences weren't complete.
As this post failed to reveal the sentences in full I decided to shorten them and send another post, but here are the old ones in full "un chopped off" of course
1. With the continuing advancement of medical science, the cryonically suspension person will be resuscitated back to life sooner or later.
2. There is only a very slim chance of that of the above, but it is worth taking that chance.
3. There is no chance of any resuscitation of a frozen cadaver so don't bother wasting your money on such pseudoscience and instead spend it on a shiny new Porsche or a nice new extension to your house.
4. Cryonic suspension may provide valuable research data for epidemiologists at some point of time in the future such as the equivalent to the 20th century's Spanish flue and fatal idiopathic diseases.
Bob
Remember: When you die your philosophy dies with you
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2001 : 09:32:57 [Permalink]
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All the reading I've done on cyrogenic freezing has labeled it as bunk. We don't have the technology to freeze and revive a healthy human, let alone a sick one.
Lisa
Hi Lisa,
Well I think you should do a little more reading on the subject. It is quite clear that nanotech will be cabable of repairing these individuals (most of them anyway)Please check this site: http://www.zyvex.com/nanotech/nanotechAndMedicine.html I plan on signing up for cronic suspention within the next six months.
Adam
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2001 : 10:42:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
It is quite clear that nanotech will be cabable of repairing these individuals (most of them anyway)
And it's quite clear that a warp drive will let us travel to the stars. Problem is, we don't have either warp drives or nano-technology. Maybe we will eventually develop one or both of these things to sufficiently allow us to repair dead bodies back to life and to travel to Andromeda. But until then, paying someone thousands of dollars to freeze your corpse (or your head), is still on my list of things that are "silly".
(It's still neat to imagine, of course, and I wouldn't begrudge any scientist who wants to work towards these goals.)
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And if rain brings winds of change
let it rain on us forever.
I have no doubt from what I've seen
that I have never wanted more.
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2001 : 05:19:41 [Permalink]
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Did anyone read the September Issue of Scientific American? It's pretty much about nanotechnology and there is a rather interesting article on nanotech not being/doing all that it's proponents claim. Anyway, Ettinger, Drexler and Merkle are the persons responsible for the concept that nano might be able to repair the damage done to the cell membranes by cryo. However, (as Michael Shermer puts it) *It takes a blindly optimistic faith in the illimitable power of science to solve any and all problems, including death.
*It is too much like religion: it promises everthing, delivers nothing (but hope) and is based almost entirely on faith in the future.*
Well, OK, only if nanorobots are capable of repairing every cellmembrane in your body. There has to be a better way to freeze someone without bursting their cells open. Shermer even likens it to the state of strawberries once frozen, *When defrosted, all the intracellular goo oozes out, turning your strawberries into runny mush. This is your brain on cryonics.*
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying." ~Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. |
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Espritch
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2001 : 09:48:47 [Permalink]
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Just out of curiosity, who are you expecting to thaw you out and perform the rather complex and, most likely, expensive process of fixing your cells? And exactly what do you think you will be able to contribute to this future society that would justify the effort, considering that you will be completely ignorant of current technology, economics, and society?
Edited by - espritch on 10/07/2001 09:49:41 |
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NubiWan
Skeptic Friend
USA
424 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2001 : 12:26:13 [Permalink]
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Mmmm..., might be possible one day, butt like we don't have enough 'peoples' already. Unless the subject should have some special ability, can't see any motive to revive many of these human-icicles, other than to see if it can be done.
Read an old sci-fi story, long ago, where the brains of some, where recycled to act as the "CPU" of starships. Think in the story, the subjects had to sign up for it. Now that possibility might have some appeal to me, but am sure by that time, there will be better trained and fresher subjects, darn it... 
"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities." -Voltaire |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2001 : 16:59:57 [Permalink]
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B & B ships (Brains and Brawn). Think that's from Anne McCafferey Nubi. The Ship Who Sang and The Ship Who Searched are two of the books set in that environment.
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying." ~Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2001 : 21:18:45 [Permalink]
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Ok, it's quite clear to me that most (not all) of you have done very little real research into the subject. You've made up your minds that it's not possible, (based on what facts?) or that it's highly improbable (so what?) Nano Tech is likely to exist within the next 20 years. Although is unlikely to be up to the task of cell repair for maybe 50 years, or even allot longer. What many of you seem to forget is it does not matter if it takes 1000 years (really), because you can remain frozen for at least that long without any further cell damage being done. Would I want to be revived 1000 years from now? Your damn straight I would, alive is always better than dead. Plus it's not that expensive to sign up (Alcor isn't the only place freezing people), and you can pay for it using a life insurance policy. Really it comes down to these choices: 1) You sign up and it works! Congratulations, you're going to live a very, very long time. 2) You sign up and it does not work (in which case you will be none the wiser) so your dead. 3) You don't sign up, but the technology does eventually work……your Dead! 4) You don't sing up…..your Dead!
Clearly if you don't sign up your dead, however if you do sign up you just might come back, however slim that chance may be what the hell do you have to lose?? Its pure logic to sign up.
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2001 : 08:14:19 [Permalink]
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Let's set science aside a bit, and discuss the business aspects of this.
You can pay the Cryonics Institute a one-time fee of $28,000 to "cryonically suspend" your corpse after you die (I'm looking for an actual contract; I'd love to read it).
So now your corpse is frozen, and stored someplace. How likely is it, that even if they do develop the technology to revive you, that the company would still be in existence, or that they'd have the capital to spend on reviving you? How long is the contract good for? If the technology comes along 200 years from now, and the company still exists, are they under any legal obligation to go through the trouble (and cost!) of reviving your dead carcass? What's to stop them from going through a corpse dump every 50 years or so, to make way for new customers, who are alive and paying them money right then, rather than some piece of meat that paid someone who's long dead themselves money that's long gone? The different scenarios are innumerable.
You still want to claim it's "logical" to do this?
[ Hee hee! Just as I thought. http://www.cryonics.org/legal.htm#Legal%20Documents
quote:
Section 1.b: At such time that CI determines in its good faith judgment that the Patient can be satisfactorily revived and rehabilitated and that the patient's revival and rehabilitation are economically practical, CI shall use its best efforts to revive and rehabilitate the patient.
(emphasis mine)
SCAM!
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And if rain brings winds of change
let it rain on us forever.
I have no doubt from what I've seen
that I have never wanted more.
Edited by - tokyodreamer on 10/09/2001 08:25:45 |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2001 : 10:35:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
You can pay the Cryonics Institute a one-time fee of $28,000 to "cryonically suspend"
First off, you can pay that $28,000 via a life insurance policy which will not cost you anywhere near $28,000! Secondly, do you understand the concept behind a working nonotechnology? The cost will be nill (next to nothing) to revive these patients. Please read Merkel's "The molecular repair of the Brain". One of the links I posted earlier will bring you to it. He goes into a very detailed explanation of how these people can be repaired and revived with very little expense. Ever wonder why some of the most intelligent people on this planet are amoung the ones signing up for cryonics? Like; Brian Atkins, Sabine Atkins, Eric Drexler, Tim Freeman, Robin Hanson, Norman Hardy, Chris Hibbert, Tad Hogg, Ted Kaehler, Ken Kahn, Bart Kosko, Dave Krieger, Ralph Merkle, Mark Miller, Marvin Minsky, Luke Nosek, Chris Peterson, Phillip K. Salin, Jeff Soreff, Terry Stanley, Dean Tribble, Edgar Swank, Russell Whitaker, Kennita Watson, Ka-Ping Yee, Leonard N. Zubkoff ect...
And last but not least....no one has come up with any logical response to this: If you don't sign up you will be dead. If you do sign up you just might (might) live a very, very long time. To me its a no-brainer. I mean whats the worst case scenario. If I sign up and it does not work, what have I lost? The money I spent on a $28,000 life insurrance policy.....who cares....I'm DEAD.
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Espritch
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2001 : 16:02:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
First off, you can pay that $28,000 via a life insurance policy which will not cost you anywhere near $28,000!
Ummm...are you sure you really understand how life insurance works?
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2001 : 16:13:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Ummm...are you sure you really understand how life insurance works?
Funny, I was thinking the same thing... 
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And if rain brings winds of change
let it rain on us forever.
I have no doubt from what I've seen
that I have never wanted more.
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Topic Locked
