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Greg
Skeptic Friend
USA
281 Posts |
 Posted - 08/30/2001 : 14:54:02
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I put this one in Politics because I couldn't think of a better place for it.
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=11380
My opinion is that censorship is worse than the alternative. I have always raised my children (ages 14 and 11) by being honest with them. I have tried to instill the philosophy that intellegent, educated, and FREE people are required to view both sides of any issue and make up their own minds. Use data and compare logcal, well thought out arguments from both sides of the debate. The censorship above would undermine my attempts to educate my children. I use no filters (that I know of) on my computer at home. My children have completa access to the computer any time they want (if I have'nt gotten there first). I don't think that seeing a couple of "dirty" pictures on the internet is any worse than when I was 14 and saw them in magazines. The problem here is that parents think that they're getting porn filters, but they're getting political filters as well. How can we teach children about honest, logical debate when this occours?
Greg.
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Marc_a_b
Skeptic Friend
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2001 : 18:06:12 [Permalink]
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I woule rather do without any filters. There are plenty of ways to get around them as a smart kid can easily find. I get along well with a couple of my nephews and neice, I know they know a lot more than they should.  It is better for parents to be in touch with their kids rather than rely on technology to monitor them.
I think these filters should be required to provide information on exactly what it is they filter. Heck, $cientology distributed software to many of it's members to make a 'homepage'. Within that software was a filter that would censor thier web access, e-mail, and chat rooms! Preventing them from encountering any critical information. For informatin on the Scieno-Sitter:
http://www.xenu.net/archive/events/censorship/
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comradebillyboy
Skeptic Friend
USA
188 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2001 : 18:29:28 [Permalink]
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i suppose folks are free to put any kind of software on their own computers. if i had small children, i would closly supervise their computer use. but i really don't understand why people would censor their own computers.
on the job, however, an employer should be free to monitor and control employee's use of company resources. i don't think any employer should be required to let his or her workers surf the net for entertainment while on the job. we wage slaves sell our time to our employers and are obligated to abide by or terms of employment, especially if those are spelled out contractually.
comrade billyboy |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2001 : 21:27:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
My opinion is that censorship is worse than the alternative. I have always raised my children (ages 14 and 11) by being honest with them. I have tried to instill the philosophy that intellegent, educated, and FREE people are required to view both sides of any issue and make up their own minds. Use data and compare logcal, well thought out arguments from both sides of the debate. The censorship above would undermine my attempts to educate my children. I use no filters (that I know of) on my computer at home. My children have completa access to the computer any time they want (if I have'nt gotten there first). I don't think that seeing a couple of "dirty" pictures on the internet is any worse than when I was 14 and saw them in magazines. The problem here is that parents think that they're getting porn filters, but they're getting political filters as well. How can we teach children about honest, logical debate when this occours?
Greg.
Totaly agree with you.
When my x-daughter was still in her crib, must have been about 1 year old. Don't remember but she could talk and stand up. I put a Playboy centerfold on the wall next to the crib. LOL, she use to point to it and say my name. The person in the photo had long brown hair like me!
And my boy, he had access to that same Playboy collection since he was little. He's 17 now. I've seen some of the web sites he's been to on his computer, BIG Fucking DEAL!
I refuse to buy a new TV because I don't want to pay for the 'V' chip, which I didn't ask for. (if anyone knows of a brand of TV that doesn't have it, let me know).
nlm
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art. |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2001 : 06:46:39 [Permalink]
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Very true about employers, we're not paid to surf e-bay.
But in the home...Snake's issue with the v-chip is valid, in my opinion. Has it occured to anyone just to be aware of what their kids are doing? Snake knows what sites on the internet his son is surfing and doesn't have a problem with it. Why should Uncle Sam? I don't recall Snake (or anyone else) ever posting "Gosh, I sure wish more legislation would pass that would help me raise my kid".
Lisa
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2001 : 09:13:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
"Gosh, I sure wish more legislation would pass that would help me raise my kid".
That's generally a parents job. That's why they call it parenting. Parental units need to get more involved in their kids lives instead of expecting the state to take over what is their responsibility in the first place.
Now, I watch TV with my kid, we discuss any thing she may bring up. My kid surfs the internet. She doesn't like a site, she hits the back button.
There is also a certain amount of trust that parents must give to their children as they grow up. Because if a parent doesn't trust a child at 18 well that new young adult won't know how to make a decision because they've never been allowed to make one and learn from their mistakes.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2001 : 09:48:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
I put this one in Politics because I couldn't think of a better place for it.
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=11380
My opinion is that censorship is worse than the alternative. I have always raised my children (ages 14 and 11) by being honest with them. I have tried to instill the philosophy that intellegent, educated, and FREE people are required to view both sides of any issue and make up their own minds. Use data and compare logcal, well thought out arguments from both sides of the debate. The censorship above would undermine my attempts to educate my children. I use no filters (that I know of) on my computer at home. My children have completa access to the computer any time they want (if I have'nt gotten there first). I don't think that seeing a couple of "dirty" pictures on the internet is any worse than when I was 14 and saw them in magazines. The problem here is that parents think that they're getting porn filters, but they're getting political filters as well. How can we teach children about honest, logical debate when this occours?
Greg.
I've never needed a chip or software to do my job of parenting. I take an interest in what my children are doing and lay ground rules for the access. If they abuse the priveledge, they loose it for a time. My son is a pretty good kid. He also knows that if I ever get suspisious of what he's doing, I have the know how to find out where he's been on the computer. The government does not know how to raise my child better than I do. (No matter what the v-chip proponents say.) The V-chip and censorship software is up to the individual family. If you feel you need it, fine, buy one. But don't force me to buy stuff I don't want. Even though the V-chip can be disabled, it should not be standard equipment in all sets.
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2001 : 11:06:44 [Permalink]
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Even though the V-chip can be disabled, it should not be standard equipment in all sets.
I belive I heard it's ONLY $10 to the cost. Well, that's $10 I don't and shouldn't have to pay if I don't want or need to.
quote:
But in the home...Snake's issue with the v-chip is valid, in my opinion. Lisa
Thank you.
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Snake knows what sites on the internet his son is surfing and doesn't have a problem with it.
Exactly, and I don't have a problem with any of it. One would have to be an idiot not to know what's there and to blame someone else is stupid and playing the victom. If someone doesn't like it, take away the damn computer, don't make everyone else have to pay for censorship.
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That's generally a parents job. That's why they call it parenting. Trish.
Well said.
I have to go, my BP is raising, on this issue. 
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art. |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2001 : 11:17:14 [Permalink]
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Censorship is most often used to keep other people from accessing bad information. The funny thing is that this is done under the banner of protecting one's own family when they have that opportunity every day of every week of every year.
I don't care at all what the subject matter is. First one has to take the position that sex is bad to want to ban sexual matters. I have never heard a valid argument for that. Sex is one of the fundamental forces that drives all life. I fail to see how it's bad. Could be that I'm just too stupid to see it. Between you and me, i just think America needs to grow up and get with the system 
Censorship is also used as a means of blocking ideas that one group doesn't agree with. This really pisses me off. I would rather see books on how to make chemical weapons and satanism readily available than risk having, say, books on skepticism banned.
The bottom line is, and always has been, if you don't like it don't buy it, look at it or talk about it. Let those that do want to have the same opportunity you do.
 @tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Greg
Skeptic Friend
USA
281 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2001 : 13:46:53 [Permalink]
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I think that it's only part of the problem that parents want government to be their children's 2nd parents. I think that the real problem is that parents want to shield their children from the real world. To pretend that there is nothing bad happening. To pretend that no other people have opinions that are different. To assume that things ideas that the parents don't share are wrong or bad. One can't think critically if they only see one side of issues.
Greg.
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2001 : 20:41:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
I think that the real problem is that parents want to shield their children from the real world. To pretend that there is nothing bad happening. To pretend that no other people have opinions that are different. To assume that things ideas that the parents don't share are wrong or bad. One can't think critically if they only see one side of issues.
Well put.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2001 : 21:37:56 [Permalink]
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Guards! Seize them both!
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2001 : 22:49:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Guards! Seize them both!
@tomic
So what's next? A federally mandated bedtime and a constitutional amendment to wipe your feet? (Probably badly misquoted from PJ O'Roarke)
Lisa
Edited by - Lisa on 08/31/2001 22:50:58 |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2001 : 12:33:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
So what's next? A federally mandated bedtime and a constitutional amendment to wipe your feet? (Probably badly misquoted from PJ O'Roarke)
Lisa
Well, a few states are passing or trying to pass laws that kids must say "ma'am" and "sir". So who knows what's next?
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Hope springs eternal but there's no conviction
Actions mistaken for lip service paid
All this concern is the true contradiction
The world is insane... |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2001 : 15:53:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Well, a few states are passing or trying to pass laws that kids must say "ma'am" and "sir". So who knows what's next?
Gee, my dad just knocked me upside the head if I didn't say sir or ma'am. Now they need a law to make you do it?
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2001 : 15:57:35 [Permalink]
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That m'am and sir thing sounds pretty cool. Perhaps I can write my congresswoman and get her to sponsor a bill to call me Mr. @tomic sir.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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