|
|
|
Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
 Posted - 12/06/2004 : 08:04:57 [Permalink]
|
To imply faith is to imply trust. To imply belief is to imply knowledge. That is how I see it So while I believe in a Diety it does not mean that I have trust in it. Christian or not. But I cannot ignore it's existence.  |
Storm |
 |
|
|
R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2004 : 15:12:25 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Storm wrote:
To imply faith is to imply trust. To imply belief is to imply knowledge. That is how I see it So while I believe in a Diety it does not mean that I have trust in it.
So if you believe in a diety, you are implying that you have knowledge of one. How did you get that knowledge? |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
|
|
|
|
Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2004 : 18:37:55 [Permalink]
|
The Diety came to me and manifested itself to me and told me of its existence and has guided me through many thing.  My trust in it's many ideas are not always aggreable. |
Storm |
|
|
|
Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
|
|
Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2004 : 19:51:31 [Permalink]
|
| No Sarcasim at all. I am telling you the truth . |
Storm |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2004 : 21:46:18 [Permalink]
|
Storm wrote:quote:
The Diety came to me and manifested itself to me and told me of its existence and has guided me through many thing.
And you believe it was a deity because...? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 08:41:42 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Storm
The Diety came to me and manifested itself to me and told me of its existence and has guided me through many thing. My trust in it's many ideas are not always aggreable.
Why does this remind me of the t-shirt "Even if the voices aren't real, you have to admit they have some really good ideas" or "The voices in my head don't like you".
While I can respect a personal ephiphany, claiming this is proof for God is fallacious.
I'll repeat this again. The devine cannot be proven. It is a theological construct. To prove something scientifically, one must first define what it is to be proven in a measurable and quantifiable way. Once the devine is measured and quantified (essentially discovering limits to the Supreme Being) that being ceases to be devine. As a theological construct, it has no physical manifestation that can be measured. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 10:47:47 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
Why does this remind me of the t-shirt "Even if the voices aren't real, you have to admit they have some really good ideas" or "The voices in my head don't like you".
From the beginning of The Gods Must Be Crazy, "Are the voices in my head bothering you?" |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 11:06:15 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
Why does this remind me of the t-shirt "Even if the voices aren't real, you have to admit they have some really good ideas" or "The voices in my head don't like you".
From the beginning of The Gods Must Be Crazy, "Are the voices in my head bothering you?"
That is a neat flick! I have it on tape, and I think I'll watch it again, in spite of the fire extinguishing rhinocerous. 
 |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
|
|
|
ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 12/25/2004 : 19:23:42 [Permalink]
|
quote:
The Diety came to me and manifested itself to me and told me of its existence and has guided me through many thing. My trust in it's many ideas are not always aggreable.
Hallucinations? Dreams?
Whatever...
ljbrs |
"Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve about these suns in a manner similar to the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings inhabit these worlds."
Giordano Bruno
(Burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church Inquisition in 1600) |
|
|
|
dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2004 : 09:19:09 [Permalink]
|
quote:
What is the difference between Belief and Knowledge
Are they synonymous
Does Knowledge lead to Belief
Or vice versa
Check out this definition of Belief:
3 : conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence
Check out this definition of Knowledge:
2 a (1) : the fact or condition of knowing something with familiarity gained through experience or association (2) : acquaintance with or understanding of a science, art, or technique b (1) : the fact or condition of being aware of something (2) : the range of one's information or understanding <answered to the best of my knowledge> c : the circumstance or condition of apprehending truth or fact through reasoning
Interesting
Someone once told me to leave Belief to the Religious and Knowledge to the Scientists.
What do the Skeptics think
Storm
This is my take on it.
Belief is equivalent to faith and knowledge is derived from it. Every human alive has faith (or beliefs or axioms) when you get right down to it.
For example let's imagine a skepic. What does an ideal skeptic have faith in? The evidence of course. The skeptic believes that the evidence is a solid base from which to reason. The ideal skeptic will therefore test all theories/hypothesis/conjectures against the evidence.
It is important to note that belief in evidence cannot be logically deduced. That is it is impossible to prove that evidence is true without first assuming that evidence is true.
It comes down to esthetics. At the most basic level we believe whatever appeals to us. This is not to say that all beliefs are created equal. If nothing else survival should be promoted.
I do think that principles like Okham's Razor, internal consistency and usefulness are good indicators of a sound set of core beliefs, why? because they appeal to me. |
|
|
|
beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2005 : 14:24:33 [Permalink]
|
Well it is a bit distracting to argue over the language issue, belief vs knowledge, when the real discussion is over how one verifies the reality one accepts.
I'm a very strong evidence based reality person.
I also happen to believe there is strong evidence, (or in this case I should say I interpret the evidence to support), that all religious beliefs are manufactured purely by humans without any divine intervention. Everything from the content of religious texts to surveys of various aspects of human life today point to human origin. Nothing points to divine origin.
On another note, it distresses me at times to see so many humans who either don't recognize evidence or don't accept evidence for one reason or another. It is hard to see the human race as intelligent when so many people still believe arbitrary rituals will affect their fate. |
|
|
|
dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2005 : 17:32:00 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Well it is a bit distracting to argue over the language issue, belief vs knowledge, when the real discussion is over how one verifies the reality one accepts.
I thought I was discussing how one verifies the reality one accepts. Oh well live and learn.
quote:
I'm a very strong evidence based reality person.
As am I.
quote:
I also happen to believe there is strong evidence, (or in this case I should say I interpret the evidence to support), that all religious beliefs are manufactured purely by humans without any divine intervention.
Just a tweak. I would say that there is a lack of evidence supporting the idea that religion is inspired by God.
quote:
Everything from the content of religious texts to surveys of various aspects of human life today point to human origin. Nothing points to divine origin.
Everything? But I do agree with your meaning. Such evidence as there is points to a human origin.
quote:
On another note, it distresses me at times to see so many humans who either don't recognize evidence or don't accept evidence for one reason or another. It is hard to see the human race as intelligent when so many people still believe arbitrary rituals will affect their fate.
I share your concern. I believe that promoting skeptisism is a worthy goal.
My point in the last post was to illustrate that faith is fundamental to humanity and that it is not always something to rail against. We are hardwired to believe certain basic things which are neccesary for survival. Perhaps some are hardwired to believe in God or spirituality. |
|
|
|
beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2005 : 09:06:05 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by dv82matt
quote:
Well it is a bit distracting to argue over the language issue, belief vs knowledge, when the real discussion is over how one verifies the reality one accepts.
I thought I was discussing how one verifies the reality one accepts. Oh well live and learn.
No no, I agree that is what you are discussing. What I was trying to say was using the two words as the focus allows for distraction from the real discussion.
quote:
Originally posted by dv82matt
quote:
Everything from the content of religious texts to surveys of various aspects of human life today point to human origin. Nothing points to divine origin.
Everything?
Well, if you are saying I couldn't have possibly evaluated everything, you would be correct. But other than that, did you have something in mind that did support divine intervention?
quote:
Originally posted by dv82matt
My point in the last post was to illustrate that faith is fundamental to humanity and that it is not always something to rail against. We are hardwired to believe certain basic things which are neccesary for survival. Perhaps some are hardwired to believe in God or spirituality.
It could also be that it is a stage of human development and rather than needing spirituality we just haven't outgrown it yet. |
|
|
|
Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2005 : 09:47:06 [Permalink]
|
What would be evidence for you of God? If it came down and bit you on the Ass? Just joking. in a sort of way. God or what I define asGod has manifested many times....
One might call me delusional...
But I am not... Quite Sane in fact....
But I have been shown evidence...
It is just not the Christian God who manifested the Evidence to me...
That is why I am anot a believer in tha Philosophy anymore...
Although the basic symbolism of Jesus Christ, Self Sacrifice, Unconditional Love, are Universal to all of Humankind.. We'd all be better off if we did some of these things... I at least try....
|
|
|
 |
|
Topic Locked
