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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
 Posted - 01/31/2005 : 08:35:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Isaiah
quote:
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
" You made the claim, then you must provide the evidence that democracy is the best
The evidence speaks for itself in this case. What nations are the wealthiest in the world, especially when you consider the average wealth of every citizen?
The countries you can name to the top 25 spots on that list are democracies.
Just to note them:
Ranking is based on 1997 data, GNP per capita. Government type is from the CIA World Factbook. Suffrage (which is probably what "democracy" means in this context since democracy is only mentioned for six of the countries' government types) is also from the CIA World Factbook. (edited to fix link)
I was going to note this, but I'm glad you did Isaiah. Dude is essentially right-- out of the 25 richest countries, 23 have democratic traditions-- i.e. their citizens, in one way or another, elect their leaders. Only Saudi Arabia and Kuwait aren't. And in those cases, their wealth is highly skewed towards those few in power who happen to own all the oil. I mean-- if you have one guy who makes a billion dollars a year, and nine others who make a thousand dollars a year, that still averages out to the ten making $100,000,900 a year... |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2005 : 13:03:29 [Permalink]
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Wow. I'd never really thought about how monarchy is still alive and kickin'. Neat.
I, for one, think anarchy would be far better than democracy, if humans were perfect. Since they aren't... |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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latinijral
Banned
197 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2005 : 13:11:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
Explain why "skeptics" believe in democracy and polls.
Jerks ., poor jerks.
I hate to say this, but on the subject of polls, I agree with Latin. They can be slanted so many ways. For one: the wording of the question can be confusing. Two: please explain "random". If I poll people who hang out around the headquarters of the KKK and the students at Berkley, I'm sure the results of any given poll would be different. (caveat: these are extreme examples, and I'm certain no reputable pollster would resort to this.)
Now that I'm out of that lawsuit:
Democracy In General.
No it isn't perfect, or we wouldn't have had Hoover. That's why we keep electing, and Hoover got un-elected as soon as voters could get to the polls.
We don't elect a president-for-life. Early in this country, there was talk of making Washington the King. (new colonies) Even he realized his grandkids might be morons and vetoed the idea.
We have our little system of checks and balances. It might not be perfect. There are humans involved, so there will always be egos, corruption, backbiting, and all sorts of fun stuff.
To add another wrench into things: we aren't a democracy. We're a Representative Republic.
Dear Lisa:
You are begining to learn about reality.
maybe they think if they can make a poll about me , then it must be the truth.
Look how your buddies believe that democracy depends and means in the amount of money you can earn.
What a crap.
They are not able to think by themselves. |
Father of the new skepticism
Cuneiformist "But yeah, I'm sick of latinijral. And his "new "skepticism"! |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2005 : 13:17:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
quote:
Originally posted by Lisa
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
Explain why "skeptics" believe in democracy and polls.
Jerks ., poor jerks.
I hate to say this, but on the subject of polls, I agree with Latin. They can be slanted so many ways. For one: the wording of the question can be confusing. Two: please explain "random". If I poll people who hang out around the headquarters of the KKK and the students at Berkley, I'm sure the results of any given poll would be different. (caveat: these are extreme examples, and I'm certain no reputable pollster would resort to this.)
Now that I'm out of that lawsuit:
Democracy In General.
No it isn't perfect, or we wouldn't have had Hoover. That's why we keep electing, and Hoover got un-elected as soon as voters could get to the polls.
We don't elect a president-for-life. Early in this country, there was talk of making Washington the King. (new colonies) Even he realized his grandkids might be morons and vetoed the idea.
We have our little system of checks and balances. It might not be perfect. There are humans involved, so there will always be egos, corruption, backbiting, and all sorts of fun stuff.
To add another wrench into things: we aren't a democracy. We're a Representative Republic.
Dear Lisa:
You are begining to learn about reality.
maybe they think if they can make a poll about me , then it must be the truth.
Look how your buddies believe that democracy depends and means in the amount of money you can earn.
What a crap.
They are not able to think by themselves.
Repeated attempts at demeaning Lisa just shows the lack of evidence you have. You have no honor, have no arguement, and are a human being deserving only contempt.
What a sad little man you are.
So, are you going to make up something in between Lisa and me again? Since we live in different states and have never met, that would be a hard row to hoe indeed.
A lot of people disagree with you and based on the same reason. Don't you think you should re-evaluate your position? Of course not, you need only demonize your opponents and make disparaging remarks to spread your lies. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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latinijral
Banned
197 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2005 : 13:22:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
quote:
Originally posted by Lisa
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
Explain why "skeptics" believe in democracy and polls.
Jerks ., poor jerks.
I hate to say this, but on the subject of polls, I agree with Latin. They can be slanted so many ways. For one: the wording of the question can be confusing. Two: please explain "random". If I poll people who hang out around the headquarters of the KKK and the students at Berkley, I'm sure the results of any given poll would be different. (caveat: these are extreme examples, and I'm certain no reputable pollster would resort to this.)
Now that I'm out of that lawsuit:
Democracy In General.
No it isn't perfect, or we wouldn't have had Hoover. That's why we keep electing, and Hoover got un-elected as soon as voters could get to the polls.
We don't elect a president-for-life. Early in this country, there was talk of making Washington the King. (new colonies) Even he realized his grandkids might be morons and vetoed the idea.
We have our little system of checks and balances. It might not be perfect. There are humans involved, so there will always be egos, corruption, backbiting, and all sorts of fun stuff.
To add another wrench into things: we aren't a democracy. We're a Representative Republic.
Dear Lisa:
You are begining to learn about reality.
maybe they think if they can make a poll about me , then it must be the truth.
Look how your buddies believe that democracy depends and means in the amount of money you can earn.
What a crap.
They are not able to think by themselves.
Repeated attempts at demeaning Lisa just shows the lack of evidence you have. You have no honor, have no arguement, and are a human being deserving only contempt.
What a sad little man you are.
So, are you going to make up something in between Lisa and me again? Since we live in different states and have never met, that would be a hard row to hoe indeed.
A lot of people disagree with you and based on the same reason. Don't you think you should re-evaluate your position? Of course not, you need only demonize your opponents and make disparaging remarks to spread your lies.
And your point is?
That you don't like me?
Thatīs all you got?
Now try something intelliget. |
Father of the new skepticism
Cuneiformist "But yeah, I'm sick of latinijral. And his "new "skepticism"! |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2005 : 13:49:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
quote:
Originally posted by Lisa
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
Explain why "skeptics" believe in democracy and polls.
Jerks ., poor jerks.
I hate to say this, but on the subject of polls, I agree with Latin. They can be slanted so many ways. For one: the wording of the question can be confusing. Two: please explain "random". If I poll people who hang out around the headquarters of the KKK and the students at Berkley, I'm sure the results of any given poll would be different. (caveat: these are extreme examples, and I'm certain no reputable pollster would resort to this.)
Now that I'm out of that lawsuit:
Democracy In General.
No it isn't perfect, or we wouldn't have had Hoover. That's why we keep electing, and Hoover got un-elected as soon as voters could get to the polls.
We don't elect a president-for-life. Early in this country, there was talk of making Washington the King. (new colonies) Even he realized his grandkids might be morons and vetoed the idea.
We have our little system of checks and balances. It might not be perfect. There are humans involved, so there will always be egos, corruption, backbiting, and all sorts of fun stuff.
To add another wrench into things: we aren't a democracy. We're a Representative Republic.
Dear Lisa:
You are begining to learn about reality.
maybe they think if they can make a poll about me , then it must be the truth.
Look how your buddies believe that democracy depends and means in the amount of money you can earn.
What a crap.
They are not able to think by themselves.
Repeated attempts at demeaning Lisa just shows the lack of evidence you have. You have no honor, have no arguement, and are a human being deserving only contempt.
What a sad little man you are.
So, are you going to make up something in between Lisa and me again? Since we live in different states and have never met, that would be a hard row to hoe indeed.
A lot of people disagree with you and based on the same reason. Don't you think you should re-evaluate your position? Of course not, you need only demonize your opponents and make disparaging remarks to spread your lies.
And your point is?
That you don't like me?
Thatīs all you got?
Now try something intelliget.
Boy, you just don't read, do you?
Tried something intelligent. Got insulted for my trouble. You continually deride people who disagree with you. You continually intimate an improper relationship with zero proof for it and then claim that people who don't agree with your assessment must stupid/misled/in on the conspiracy/having improper relations with one another.
And I should believe anything you say...... why?
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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latinijral
Banned
197 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2005 : 13:56:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
quote:
Originally posted by Lisa
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
Explain why "skeptics" believe in democracy and polls.
Jerks ., poor jerks.
I hate to say this, but on the subject of polls, I agree with Latin. They can be slanted so many ways. For one: the wording of the question can be confusing. Two: please explain "random". If I poll people who hang out around the headquarters of the KKK and the students at Berkley, I'm sure the results of any given poll would be different. (caveat: these are extreme examples, and I'm certain no reputable pollster would resort to this.)
Now that I'm out of that lawsuit:
Democracy In General.
No it isn't perfect, or we wouldn't have had Hoover. That's why we keep electing, and Hoover got un-elected as soon as voters could get to the polls.
We don't elect a president-for-life. Early in this country, there was talk of making Washington the King. (new colonies) Even he realized his grandkids might be morons and vetoed the idea.
We have our little system of checks and balances. It might not be perfect. There are humans involved, so there will always be egos, corruption, backbiting, and all sorts of fun stuff.
To add another wrench into things: we aren't a democracy. We're a Representative Republic.
Dear Lisa:
You are begining to learn about reality.
maybe they think if they can make a poll about me , then it must be the truth.
Look how your buddies believe that democracy depends and means in the amount of money you can earn.
What a crap.
They are not able to think by themselves.
Repeated attempts at demeaning Lisa just shows the lack of evidence you have. You have no honor, have no arguement, and are a human being deserving only contempt.
What a sad little man you are.
So, are you going to make up something in between Lisa and me again? Since we live in different states and have never met, that would be a hard row to hoe indeed.
A lot of people disagree with you and based on the same reason. Don't you think you should re-evaluate your position? Of course not, you need only demonize your opponents and make disparaging remarks to spread your lies.
And your point is?
That you don't like me?
Thatīs all you got?
Now try something intelliget.
Boy, you just don't read, do you?
Tried something intelligent. Got insulted for my trouble. You continually deride people who disagree with you. You continually intimate an improper relationship with zero proof for it and then claim that people who don't agree with your assessment must stupid/misled/in on the conspiracy/having improper relations with one another.
And I should believe anything you say...... why?
Are you making a portrait of yourself?
Or do you think I should join your club? |
Father of the new skepticism
Cuneiformist "But yeah, I'm sick of latinijral. And his "new "skepticism"! |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2005 : 14:04:17 [Permalink]
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My goodness. Here we have latinijral insulting people who disagree with him as a form of repartee and he doesn't see it.
What is projection?
I'll take phychological coping mechanisms for being wrong for $200, lat.
This just reminds me of Travis Tritt and Bill Engvall's song "Here's Your Sign".
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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latinijral
Banned
197 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2005 : 14:09:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
My goodness. Here we have latinijral insulting people who disagree with him as a form of repartee and he doesn't see it.
What is projection?
I'll take phychological coping mechanisms for being wrong for $200, lat.
This just reminds me of Travis Tritt and Bill Engvall's song "Here's Your Sign".
If you believe that I am insulting you just becuase I make you think , then I am insulting you.
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Father of the new skepticism
Cuneiformist "But yeah, I'm sick of latinijral. And his "new "skepticism"! |
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latinijral
Banned
197 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2005 : 14:13:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
Wow. I'd never really thought about how monarchy is still alive and kickin'. Neat.
I, for one, think anarchy would be far better than democracy, if humans were perfect. Since they aren't...
At least one reply that can be original..
The only mistake is that since democracy is not perfect then you are traveling in circles .
Why do you think humans are not perfect? |
Father of the new skepticism
Cuneiformist "But yeah, I'm sick of latinijral. And his "new "skepticism"! |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2005 : 14:20:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
Wow. I'd never really thought about how monarchy is still alive and kickin'. Neat.
I, for one, think anarchy would be far better than democracy, if humans were perfect. Since they aren't...
At least one reply that can be original..
The only mistake is that since democracy is not perfect then you are traveling in circles .
Why do you think humans are not perfect?
What is perfection? |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2005 : 14:23:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
My goodness. Here we have latinijral insulting people who disagree with him as a form of repartee and he doesn't see it.
What is projection?
I'll take phychological coping mechanisms for being wrong for $200, lat.
This just reminds me of Travis Tritt and Bill Engvall's song "Here's Your Sign".
If you believe that I am insulting you just becuase I make you think , then I am insulting you.
BZZZZZZZZ!!!! Tacky buzzer.
It's not that you "make" me think. It is the heaps of abuse you have piled on posters here and on other boards when your premises turn out to be no more than innuendo and flat out lies.
Carlos submitted something that did not conform to JREF rules for the prize. He got pissed because he violated the terms directly stated in the prize and launched a smear campaign which you have picked up.
Then you suggest that Lisa and I have some sort of a relationship based on the fact that we both find you dishonorable in your methods. Your character assassination of MoeFox here and other boards clearly show that you operate only based on innuendo and you refuse to provide any sort of plausable motive for the alledgedly improper award of the JREF scolarship.
Then, for the love of God, you somehow suggest that MoeFox acting as chauffer for Randi using Penn's car actually has some validity to your diatribe against him. The stream of logical fallacies that you have strung together to shore up bad premises is truely astounding.
That anyone would use such crude tactics as a first resort against people that disagree with them is dishonorable. I, as well as others here, started by examining your claims and determined that they were baseless. When we challenged you on them, instead of providing proof or even evidence, you resorted to namecalling and innuendo.
You open up another thread which mentioned a banning and a poll. Since that did not happen here, what relavance does it have to this board? The thread you started was locked here because it was going nowhere fast and strayed so far afield from the original post that the moderator determined that it needed to end and the individual tangents should have their own threads. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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latinijral
Banned
197 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2005 : 14:25:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
Wow. I'd never really thought about how monarchy is still alive and kickin'. Neat.
I, for one, think anarchy would be far better than democracy, if humans were perfect. Since they aren't...
At least one reply that can be original..
The only mistake is that since democracy is not perfect then you are traveling in circles .
Why do you think humans are not perfect?
What is perfection?
You are the one who are claiming to know what perfections is , since you know what is NOT perfect.
Please elaborate your claim. |
Father of the new skepticism
Cuneiformist "But yeah, I'm sick of latinijral. And his "new "skepticism"! |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2005 : 14:41:26 [Permalink]
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Ok, I shall.
I start from the premise that a perfect being can't err and know the correct absolute answers to everything. But we all err, and we don't have the absolute answers to everything. Therefore, we aren't perfect.
But if you have a different view of what is perfection, be my guest and do share. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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latinijral
Banned
197 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2005 : 14:54:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
Ok, I shall.
I start from the premise that a perfect being can't err and know the correct absolute answers to everything. But we all err, and we don't have the absolute answers to everything. Therefore, we aren't perfect.
But if you have a different view of what is perfection, be my guest and do share.
That seems to me an elementary definition of perfection.
Try the perfection of the imperfection. Maybe you are just full of wrong patterns of what perfection is.
Should an skeptic society be the nearest to perfection under your definition?
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Father of the new skepticism
Cuneiformist "But yeah, I'm sick of latinijral. And his "new "skepticism"! |
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Topic Locked
