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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
 Posted - 01/26/2005 : 12:27:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by serendipitypublishing
Off course, anything new will be percieved as being made up.
Only if it's insane and completely incongruant with established facts.
quote:
However my understanding of perception is that there is a single point of source, i.e. the dreamer, therefore in the evolving dream it would make sense that all languages stem from one.
Huh? I don't understand this. Perhaps someone who's sufficiently chemichally altered can make more sense of it...
quote:
Think of language as an equation which is derived. Take the simplest form of the equation and then try to derive it again, you start to go backwards until once again you reach the simplest form. All things including the universe work under this principle.
However, it's the topic of many arguements because it's source is unknown.
You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.
quote:
If we only base our ideas of the future on the past then we'll get nowhere, it take leaps of imagination to progress. You should understand this by looking at the past.
Anyway, I brought up the subject of 'sin' in response to a comment Wendy made. To Sin means to think apart from your creator. I.e. to be without.
But you cannot understand this if you believe you are a body. God and creation have no meaning is this evolving world of dreams. There is no punishment for sin, just a direct law of cause and effect.
Pass the bong! |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2005 : 12:48:09 [Permalink]
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I understand the derivation example, I think... but why is language an equation? In fact, starting from the premise life's an illusion, what is an equation? What's language?
See my point? |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2005 : 13:29:21 [Permalink]
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So I know part of the equation...
1LanguageLost/20Minutes = your equation is crap because the number of languages has gone down from the start of the exploration age.
Really many languages were developed totally isolated from each other, how you came up with this nonsense is really baffling. Add to that your complete lack of understanding of language origins in the first place and all you get is quackery. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2005 : 13:31:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by serendipitypublishing
Thanks. I thought so from my research on the Internet in that region.
Just so happens that the painting of the Lascaux caves shows a meteorite hit ??
Now on my map of the Artic Circle this would correspond to the coastline of Canada. What do you think ?
The picture I posted seems to keep dissapearing.
(Da filth has just woken up from a nap and is pretty fucking grouchy.)
It is art, no less, no more. Like all art, it means whatever the hell the observer wants it to mean.
In this case, the only observers the artist intended to have were members of his own tribe, not modern critics scarfing cheese and swilling wine, and pretending inspiration. So it meant whatever they wanted it to mean. And aside from it's beauty, that's all it means today because these people were not geographers beyond their own, little patch of southern France and what ever migratory areas they might have had.
Inspired by God or some other spirit? I can't disprove it, but I can certainly doubt it. These people, like ourselves, were in the serious business of making a living. They did not give a dingo's kidney about the Gulf Stream or any dent in arctic Canada, even if they knew about them. Which knowledge is about as likely as my house 'possum doing algebra.
No my friend, it's a fun to speculate, but sooner or later we've got to take reality into consideration. They were highly skilled hunter/gathers, not seafarers, and explorers only to the extent of finding new resources and places to bushwhack other, competing tribes. Not much has changed, come to think of it....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 01/26/2005 13:35:17 |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2005 : 16:15:41 [Permalink]
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sp, please tell me that you do not:
-drive a car
-own a firearm
-own any sharp objects
-have children
-teach children
-get unsupervised leave from the hospital
I'll sleep much better. |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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serendipitypublishing
Skeptic Friend
60 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 03:36:55 [Permalink]
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Wow !!!
Siberia, some interesting questions which I cannot yet answer until I've remembered the glimpse I had of the alternative and then I can make a choice, until then we only have our faith.
I'll tell you the truth. When I posted on this forum, I thought that you were just skeptical people about evolution and creation in general, therefore you might entertain the idea that life is a loop and somehow we're right back to where we started from. Should have read some previous posts first. But I was wrong, you have this strong belief in who you think you are and what went before you and where you are going. 'a picture which disproves evolution' stirred quite a few emotions. One thing is for sure 'I lost my case' right there. It's a learning curve and I'm still a student
So I've learnt not to challenge existing thought by saying it is wrong but instead to only state what it is that I think, my ideas. Then the idea can be challenged but not in a defensive manner. So I thank you for this, I have made a self discovery on this forum. Actually I learnt this lesson once before, it appears that I still needed to learn it.
R.Wreck, ask yourself why it is that you are not sleeping well, for that is the source of your problems. Your belief that I am a threat to you comes from your belief that I am outside of you which causes your Fantisised Experiences to Appear Real. Anyway I'm sure there are greater things in this world of evolution that are cause for concern right now.
See you soon with 'a picture which shows an alternative view'.
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'We're all in the gutter but some of us are looking up at the stars'
Oscar Wilde
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/freeflowpyramids/ |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 15:56:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
Your belief that I am a threat to you comes from your belief that I am outside of you
Ok, I erased about 7 replies because they were laden with double entendre.
And I can't think of a way to say anything in response to this without giggling at the response...
So...
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 16:28:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
R.Wreck, ask yourself why it is that you are not sleeping well, for that is the source of your problems. Your belief that I am a threat to you comes from your belief that I am outside of you which causes your Fantisised Experiences to Appear Real.
What I find frightening is the thought that someone who believes he (or his guardian angel) can actively influence the physical world by mere force of thought is in the oncoming lane of a two lane highway doing 60 mph. I really don't want for me or anyone else to have the kind of "fantasised experience" that can result from a loss of reality in that situation. It may be fantasy to you, but the pain and death that could be caused would be very real to the other person(s) involved.
SP, I think that you have a serious problem separating reality from fantasy. And not only do you not realize this, but according to your posts here, you are actively seeking to become even more disassociated.
I certainly support your right to have whatever philosophy you want, right up to the point where you become a danger to others. And while I may be wrong (or according to you, I may not even exist), I think you are heading down that path. |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 17:01:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by serendipitypublishing
I'll tell you the truth. When I posted on this forum, I thought that you were just skeptical people about evolution and creation in general, therefore you might entertain the idea that life is a loop and somehow we're right back to where we started from.
What does this even mean?!? A loop? What does it mean to "somehow" be "back where [I] started from"? Why would I be willing to entertain such a non-sensical notion?
quote:
But I was wrong, you have this strong belief in who you think you are and what went before you and where you are going.
Right-- we have this silly non-looped notion about life...
quote:
'a picture which disproves evolution' stirred quite a few emotions. One thing is for sure 'I lost my case' right there. It's a learning curve and I'm still a student.
It didn't do anything of the sort! Indeed, the idea that--quote:
I've learnt not to challenge existing thought by saying it is wrong but instead to only state what it is that I think, my ideas. Then the idea can be challenged but not in a defensive manner.
is crazy! Your ideas that prehistoric humans in Europe has some birds'-eye view of the Gulf Stream and would represent it on a cave wall so that it cleverly resembles horses isn't an idea, it's lunacy. You've presented it fine. That even a child wouldn't buy it isn't because you presented it wrong, it's because it's stupid. |
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serendipitypublishing
Skeptic Friend
60 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2005 : 04:21:35 [Permalink]
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The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
well that's all relative to one thing Mr Huxley, exactly what your definition of 'Knowledge' is and the limits which you have set up.
If Knowledge is that defined by society then how have we reached this far in evolution, where does imagination come into all this. Wasn't it Einstein who credited his theories to his own imagination, for example, believing he was traveling on a beam of light to understand it's path.
The only danger for you R.Wreck is your own belief as to who you think I am. I cannot as I have repeated before change the physical world, I can only recognise it's path.
quote:
Why would I be willing to entertain such a non-sensical notion?
Only you know the answer to ths question Cuneiformist.
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'We're all in the gutter but some of us are looking up at the stars'
Oscar Wilde
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/freeflowpyramids/ |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2005 : 07:01:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by serendipitypublishing
If Knowledge is that defined by society then how have we reached this far in evolution, where does imagination come into all this. Wasn't it Einstein who credited his theories to his own imagination, for example, believing he was traveling on a beam of light to understand it's path.
The only danger for you R.Wreck is your own belief as to who you think I am. I cannot as I have repeated before change the physical world, I can only recognise it's path.
quote:
Why would I be willing to entertain such a non-sensical notion?
Only you know the answer to ths question Cuneiformist.
Ooooh! So mysterious!
Here's what I'd love serendipitypublishing. I obviously don't get whatever it is you're trying to argue. So why don't you spell out very simply-- using short S-V-O sentences collected together in logically-flowing paragraphs-- exactly what your point is.
If you want an example of how not to do this, just look back at your earlier posts. You began this thread by posting that image of cave-drawings put next to a photoshop-treated picture of North America. However, you never told us that this was supposed to mean. When pressed, we gotquote:
I'll spell it out for you. When was the gulf stream first discovered ?
How did neaderthals know about the gulf stream ?
That's not spelling it out, serindipitypublishing, that's asking more questions.
Later, you argued that the picturequote:
was drawn in the cave just prior to the Ice Age. In fact, I think the gulf stream played an important part in how the Ice age came about. It links the Miami Stone Circle with Europe. The gulf stream is known as 'the Conveyor belt'. I also believe that there is a lost civilization and this is just one piece of evidence to show it.
OK, fair enough. But what's this got to do with evolution? You answered that question withquote:
My definition of evolution is that we haven't evolved naturally. Our imagination is only confined to the limits of our knowledge not time.
Which is, I'd guess, when you started dropping acid before posting here. This is confirmed by this load of crap:quote:
You are dreaming right now. Time does not exist. There was no yesterday and tomorrow will never arrive. There is only Now.
What you percieve with your eyes is only what you wish to believe, it has no sense in reality. The moment you realise this is the moment you realise you know nothing of who you were. This is a re:evolution. Your mind is blank and upon it you can now understand everything in the context of the dreamer and not the dream, you will then evolve back to the knowledge of who you are, an awakening if you like. So evolution is really backwards but in a forwards sort of way.
Imagination is important here because now it becomes limitless and your return to Knowledge. That Knowledge is creation, of which no man can remember but his free will gives him the choice to decide when he wishes to remember. Then it's given him in place of what he made. So there is no true evolution just an imagination constrained by the limits of what you believe you are.
I don't even know what this means! Evolution is backwards in a forwards sort of way? Because I dream? And how the fuck does this fit in with cave drawings which, if you squint, look like North America? Were the cave men dreaming, too? If I decide to remember some shit from 8,000 years ago, can I do that?
You talk in circles and offer concepts which, with no definitions or frames or reference, are valueless. It means nothing to ramble on about how we're all just dreaming up reality. Nothing. So either spell out what you want and make sense or go back to the sixties. |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2005 : 08:11:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by serendipitypublishing
Wow !!!
Siberia, some interesting questions which I cannot yet answer until I've remembered the glimpse I had of the alternative and then I can make a choice, until then we only have our faith.
Ok! I shall be waiting. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2005 : 08:14:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by R.Wreck
I certainly support your right to have whatever philosophy you want, right up to the point where you become a danger to others. And while I may be wrong (or according to you, I may not even exist), I think you are heading down that path.
Well put, R.Wreck. I agree completely. Maybe he's just having us all on, I don't know. This thread stared out as incoherent. Now it's just creepy.
serendipitypublishing, I'm no longer as interested in you getting to the point as I am in you getting to a mental health professional. |
Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2005 : 08:39:34 [Permalink]
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SP said:
quote:
If Knowledge is that defined by society then how have we reached this far in evolution, where does imagination come into all this. Wasn't it Einstein who credited his theories to his own imagination, for example, believing he was traveling on a beam of light to understand it's path.
Knowledge is not defined by society. Beliefs, such as religion, are defined by society. Knowledge is based on facts. Cars are the result of knowledge in thermodynamics, mechanical engineering and manufacturing techniques. The knowledge to build a car has nothing at all to do with society.
Einstein imagined that he was moving the same speed as a light beam. The ability to perform this 'thought experiment' was the result of his thorough understanding of the Physics. His knowledge of Physics. If his thought experiment was not backed up by mathematics it would have been meaningless. The theory of special relativity was not presented until he had completed the mathematics and put forth a verifiable hypothesis. His theories have been supported many times by experimentation. He used his imagination in conjuction with his great intelligence and knowledge to develope a new theory. He did not use his imagination in conjuction with a bong to make up some second rate science fiction.
Your (mostly incoherent) ramblings are nothing but wild unsupported and unsupportable conjecture.
If you have some evidence for your beliefs by all means bring it on. So far I have seen no evidence. The horse painting /North America 'thing' does not constitude evidence...
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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serendipitypublishing
Skeptic Friend
60 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2005 : 09:29:49 [Permalink]
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The only part I agreed with in your post Furshur was the quote at the end.
Knowledge or facts are constrained to the beliefs of society, religous or scientific, that I thought we would all agree upon. The story of the science of light will show you that.
This is leading nowhere, I will agree to disagree with you.
I must say that I find all your posts entertaining and although we have differing views I would like to post a few more pictures for your skeptical analysis.
My intention is to ask the question, is there an alternative way of looking at the world ?. My pictures are just tools to stimulate discussion of the alternative. As Skeptics I would then be grateful to you for your opinions. Let's say a picture that disproved evolution failed. Can I try another one ?
Off course, my ultimate goal is to share my perception with you but for the meantime I'll leave that in my weblog as these are evolving thoughts which are still a little confusing even to me.
Hopefully we'll have a longer relationship of agreeing to disagree, that way we have a clearer choice based on our evidence to support our ideas.
I have another picture which I'll post later in another topic on another board. No more cave paintings I promise, for now anyway ! |
'We're all in the gutter but some of us are looking up at the stars'
Oscar Wilde
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/freeflowpyramids/ |
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