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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 03/04/2005 : 08:32:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
quote:
Originally posted by filthy.
I don't get it. Why is all this of such concern to you, latinijral? To hear you tell it, one'd think Randi took the $5,000 out of your billfold at gunpoint, and gave it to Moe. Such was not the case, was it? Was any of the money ever donated to JREF yours?
Dear filthy :
Your perspective is so selfish .
If it was not also your money, why are you worried here?
It is not a matter of who donated the money.
It is a matter of how a donated money to the JREF became an scandal that some JREF donators stopped contributing to the James Randi Educational Foundation.
What, me worry? 
Hardly, dear latinijral. I have never donated to Randi, although I might if my fortunes should improve.
And beyond not caring much more than to follow this and other threads, there's nothing selfish about it. Lots of people get pissed and leave any given organization every day. It's happened here on numerous occasions.
I have only you're obvoiusly biased word and a few bits of JREF forum gossip. Am I supposed to regard this as damning evidence of Randi committing felony fraud? Pu-leese! I wouldn't buy into that even before I fell off the turnip truck, which was a long time before yesterday.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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latinijral
Banned
197 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2005 : 08:35:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tomk80
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
quote:
Originally posted by tomk80
As well as hiring someone as an intern and giving them money for the work they do. It happens quite a lot, you know.
What work?
They confessed they gave Moe the donators money for pity.
Pity was not in the merits.
I was talking about Bidlack's son, who was an intern there? Remember?
You were talkimg about the JREF's son director.
I was talking about the stripper and porn star.
Any merits for giving her the donators'smoney? |
Father of the new skepticism
Cuneiformist "But yeah, I'm sick of latinijral. And his "new "skepticism"! |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2005 : 08:46:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
quote:
Originally posted by tomk80
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
quote:
Originally posted by tomk80
As well as hiring someone as an intern and giving them money for the work they do. It happens quite a lot, you know.
What work?
They confessed they gave Moe the donators money for pity.
Pity was not in the merits.
I was talking about Bidlack's son, who was an intern there? Remember?
You were talkimg about the JREF's son director.
I was talking about the stripper and porn star.
Any merits for giving her the donators'smoney?
Yes, I was talking about him, since you seem to be having a hard time with him too. Siberia already addressed your inability to show fraud in the case of the stripper.
But for the stripper. Any merits? Don't know, don't care. Far as I can tell, from everything you have (not) provided, she was given a scholarship based on, but not in conflict with, badly defined criteria. This was a reason for some people to stop donating money. Criteria were then sharpened by the foundation. Case closed. No fraud involved, just badly defined criteria. Absolutely nothing to make a lot of fuss about. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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latinijral
Banned
197 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2005 : 08:46:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tomk80
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
quote:
Originally posted by tomk80
What everybody seems to be asking is why [Iyou[/I] care?
Why you care that I care?
Just interested in your motives. Your one of the more deranged people I've seen on the net, and I'm always interested in what drives people like you to keep on posting nonsense.
I'm always interested in what drives people like you to keep on posting to what they consider it is nonsense.
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Father of the new skepticism
Cuneiformist "But yeah, I'm sick of latinijral. And his "new "skepticism"! |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2005 : 08:49:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
I'm always interested in what drives people like you to keep on posting to what they consider it is nonsense.
A curiousity about the mentally unstable. What's your excuse? |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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latinijral
Banned
197 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2005 : 08:57:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tomk80
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
I'm always interested in what drives people like you to keep on posting to what they consider it is nonsense.
A curiousity about the mentally unstable. What's your excuse?
A curiousity about the mentally unstable. |
Father of the new skepticism
Cuneiformist "But yeah, I'm sick of latinijral. And his "new "skepticism"! |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2005 : 09:05:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
A curiousity about the mentally unstable.
Parotting is not wholly original. But now seriously, what is your real motivation? Your patronizing everyone with a case against Randi that consists of nothing but air, promoting a 'new skepticism' which you refuse to define. Why bother? |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Paulos23
Skeptic Friend
USA
446 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2005 : 09:35:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tomk80
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
A curiousity about the mentally unstable.
Parotting is not wholly original. But now seriously, what is your real motivation? Your patronizing everyone with a case against Randi that consists of nothing but air, promoting a 'new skepticism' which you refuse to define. Why bother?
I am begining to think that is the new skepticism, throughing peoples arguements back at them and/or repeating their answers. Which, of course, is not skepticism, its being anoing. |
You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2005 : 10:19:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
quote:
Originally posted by tomk80
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
quote:
Originally posted by tomk80
As well as hiring someone as an intern and giving them money for the work they do. It happens quite a lot, you know.
What work?
They confessed they gave Moe the donators money for pity.
Pity was not in the merits.
I was talking about Bidlack's son, who was an intern there? Remember?
You were talkimg about the JREF's son director.
I was talking about the stripper and porn star.
Any merits for giving her the donators'smoney?
Lessee. The money, as reported by you from Linda, went to interns who have served the foundation in it's mission. MoeFaux was an intern.
I'm sure you will see some evil intent in that, but you are not a honorable person. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
| Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 03/04/2005 10:21:42 |
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latinijral
Banned
197 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2005 : 10:21:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tomk80
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
A curiousity about the mentally unstable.
Parotting is not wholly original. But now seriously, what is your real motivation? Your patronizing everyone with a case against Randi that consists of nothing but air, promoting a 'new skepticism' which you refuse to define. Why bother?
I was serious about you.I'm always interested in what drives people like you to keep on posting and wasting his time to what they consider it is nonsense.
This is not about Randi.
It is about a $5000 the JREF gave to a stripper( that didn't applied) and some extra cash given to the son of the director of the JREF.
All money from the donator sof the JREF.
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Father of the new skepticism
Cuneiformist "But yeah, I'm sick of latinijral. And his "new "skepticism"! |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2005 : 10:25:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
quote:
Originally posted by tomk80
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
A curiousity about the mentally unstable.
Parotting is not wholly original. But now seriously, what is your real motivation? Your patronizing everyone with a case against Randi that consists of nothing but air, promoting a 'new skepticism' which you refuse to define. Why bother?
I was serious about you.I'm always interested in what drives people like you to keep on posting and wasting his time to what they consider it is nonsense.
Masochism. I sense of curiosity. Sheer boredom. Lack of an actual life... |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2005 : 10:56:43 [Permalink]
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latinijral,
Okay, lets try this from another direction. Lets say all of your allegations about fraud at the JREF are completely true. Since none of this is anything that can be prosecuted, what is it that you expect anyone here at SFN to do about it? If it is that you need us to agree with you, how does that change the situation at the JREF? We have no control over their inner workings. If your allegations are true, I might find that interesting but since my energies are spent making SFN a great skeptic site, why on earth should I care about what goes on at the JREF? The face of skepticism would not be changed, it would not have a new meaning, and we would continue to promote critical thinking. It would not be incumbent upon us to wage a campaign against the JREF simply because they have problems over there. The problems would be their problems, not ours.
The idea that we engage in idol worship with Randi as our god is ridiculous. I have personally attacked at least one position Randi holds in my latest Kil Report. No one is beyond reproach.
Randi has made serious contributions in the area of promoting skepticism and in exposing many frauds, hoax's and silly thinking. If he is not perfect, that takes nothing away from his accomplishments. That only makes him human.
Why on earth do you persist? Is your ego so fragile that only a complete acceptance of your fraud conspiracy by us is required for you to go on with your life?
Why do you insult us? When exactly was the moment that you cornered the market on what skepticism is or isn't? Frankly, if the “Father of the New Skepticism” is going to be a condescending asshole who will not lower himself to define what that new skepticism is, why should I not just consider you just another crank? A crank is how you come off. You know, if it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.
You could join with SFN and pursue skepticism, or you could continue this self-defeating campaign that will ultimately lead us nowhere, and may lead you to a padded room. Being obsessed can be a motivator, but there is a line that can be crossed and that obsession becomes pathological. It is my belief, based on what I have read in this thread that you have crossed that line. Is that how you want to be perceived? Dr. Phil would ask, “Is this working for you?” |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2005 : 11:02:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
quote:
Originally posted by tomk80
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
A curiousity about the mentally unstable.
Parotting is not wholly original. But now seriously, what is your real motivation? Your patronizing everyone with a case against Randi that consists of nothing but air, promoting a 'new skepticism' which you refuse to define. Why bother?
I was serious about you.I'm always interested in what drives people like you to keep on posting and wasting his time to what they consider it is nonsense.
There is one simple reason I don't believe you on that. You started the discussion. I'm just a curious bystander, wondering why you actually start these threads, hence my response. Now, are you really gonna answer my question? Why is it so important to you to 'get the word about Randi out' and 'convert' us to your 'new skepticism'. What are we to do with your 'knowledge'. What do you want to achieve by putting up these allegations, provided we would agree with you? What is the goal you are trying to achieve? I have as of yet never seen you answer questions like these. Care to address them now?
quote:
This is not about Randi.
Well, you definitely fooled me there.
quote:
It is about a $5000 the JREF gave to a stripper( that didn't applied) and some extra cash given to the son of the director of the JREF.
All money from the donator sof the JREF.
On MoeFaux, I'll repeat what I stated earlier.
[quote=me]
But for the stripper. Any merits? Don't know, don't care. Far as I can tell, from everything you have (not) provided, she was given a scholarship based on, but not in conflict with, badly defined criteria. This was a reason for some people to stop donating money. Criteria were then sharpened by the foundation. Case closed. No fraud involved, just badly defined criteria. Absolutely nothing to make a lot of fuss about.[/quote]
You have as of yet to give any reason for me to assume the intern got extra money. He worked there as an intern, interns often get paid. It's that simple.
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Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
| Edited by - tomk80 on 03/04/2005 11:13:58 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2005 : 11:30:28 [Permalink]
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I notice, latinijral, that after being shown that EvilYeti never said that Chris Bidlack got a scholarship, and that Carlos made a mistake about it (and admitted it!), that you simply shut up, instead of - for example - acknowledging your mistake.
You have no honor.quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
Still believing in Hal's words or the JREF ?
Okay, using your logic, I'll have to believe that you're a 3,000-kilo octopus who has sex with animals, since you denied neither.quote:
For your record : they lost credibility.
Even if true, that doesn't mean that any fraud or unethical behaviour occured.quote:
Linda is another member of the JREF board.
...
Linda : ...we felt we could make some awards when we recognized that our interns deserved them.
Yep, to MoeFaux and to Jonathan Pritchard. I still am unable to find any mention of Chris Bidlack being given a scholarship.quote:
quote:
The Foundation is dedicated to education that enhances critical thinking and the understanding of science. Every year, the James Randi Educational Foundation makes several awards to students and educators for their outstanding work in promoting rational and critical thinking. We ask for essays or projects related to the paranormal, supernatural, or occult, and/or outlines of courses offered to students by educators, courses that critically examine such matters. We did not receive any suitable submissions for the year 2000! See the awards granted in 1999.
---------------------------------------------------------------...
What was posted, before the JREF scholarship scandal, clearly stated what was required .
Bwahahahahahaha! You quoted the guidelines (not "rules") for the educational awards, not the guidelines for the scholarships. Do you understand the difference? Do you understand that the old guidelines for scholarships never intimated that only people who apply for them will receive them, due to the guidelines being so vague?quote:
It was not for pity or for being a stripper or the son of the JREF director.
You have presented no evidence that Chris Bidlack received a scholarship. You have presented no evidence that MoeFaux's scholarship was given inappropriately.quote:
They changed the rules AFTER the scandal.
They clarified the guidelines after a few people complained that they didn't realize that scholarships could be handed out to people who hadn't applied. It was only a "scandal" to Denise, who (like yourself) was fixated on MoeFaux's having been a stripper.quote:
What a shame from an Educational Foundation
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2005 : 11:32:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
What work?
They confessed they gave Moe the donators money for pity.
Pity was not in the merits.
Oh, a new positive claim!
What evidence do you have that MoeFaux was given her scholarship out of pity?
Edited to add that earlier you wrote:quote:
Nobody knows. neither Randi , Linda or any JREF member..
But now you're saying that you do know that MoeFaux was given a scholarship out of pity, and that some anonymous "they" has admitted this.
Both cannot be true. Either "nobody knows" why MoeFaux was given a scholarship, or people do know that it was given out of pity. In which post were you lying, latinijral? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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