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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
 Posted - 02/26/2005 : 15:27:41 [Permalink]
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| Hah! Get a load of how they're acting at Rapture Ready! |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2005 : 05:57:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
The husband is definitely the victim here. His rights have been violated and his legal authority to make decisions unjustly stripped from him by the legal system and his inlaws.
He's been forced to watch his wife linger, in a persistent vegitative state, for a decade longer than this should have gone on. Forced, by people who were supposed to be his family.
Well, I guess there is something "wrong" with me then. Because this woman is already dead, and has been for a long time.
I find her parents to be reprehensible. They refuse to acknoledge the evidence of their own eyes, refuse to listen to the vast majority of medical opinion (and believe me, there have been MANY doctors on this case), are so far into denial that they had their lawyer hire a doctor who would give a medical opinion that supports their cause, they have shopped legal venues every time a judge ruled in favor of the husband.
And so on.
They are pathetic human beings, IMO.
Why? Because they misinterpret signs to think that their daughter is still alive? To view reflexes and independent breathing to think that she is alive? Terris parents aren't doctors, they aren't capable of seeing what is going on. They are parents who still think their daughter may recover, against all hopes, and don't want to lose them. They are no more or less the victim than the husband is.
No, what really disgusts me in this whole affair is how quick the christian right is to judge the husband a 'murderer', only after the woman's money. It is one more reprehensible, judgmental, ignorant, prejudicing action of the fundamentalist right that shows me exactly where the devil would be if he would exist. Right in their middle. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2005 : 13:51:47 [Permalink]
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Here is an excellent page on PVS. While it discusses some long-shot research on treatment possibilities, those alone would not be justification for continuing to keep a person alive who had been in a PVS for 15 years. As I said earlier, PVS after trauma account for those miracle awakenings while PVS after brain anoxia (no O2) from cardiac arrest do not.
From the site but I think someone already posted this.quote:
A Multi-Society Task Force defined diagnostic criteria for PVS in 1994. These criteria include the lack of awareness of self or environment and the inability to interact with others. The lack of sustained, reproducible, purposeful or voluntary behavioral responses to visual auditory, tactile or noxious stimuli, and a lack of evidence of language comprehension or expression. There is intermittent wakefulness manifested by the presence of sleep-wake cycles, a sufficient hypothalamic and brain-stem autonomic function for survival with medical and nursing care, bowel and bladder incontinence, and finally there are variably preserved cranial-nerve reflexes and spinal reflexes. In short, a wakeful unconscious state that lasts longer that a few weeks is referred to as a persistent vegetative state. (Borthwick MSTF 1).
Here's an additional site, the World Medical Association Statement on Persistent Vegetative State.
I'm sure if you looked into Terri's medical record you'd find PET scans and EEGs consistent with NO cortical brain function. You have a live body with no thought process at all and no chance for ever getting one back. So what is being kept alive? Heart, lungs, skin, and so on is all that is there. The parents are in denial.
Now if someone like Renae believes we are still a person and still alive even without brain function, then that position has some validity. I fail to see how a body with no brain is alive. I believe the position the woman is alive is based on not understanding exactly what PVS is. People see open eyes as a sign of life. But your eyes can open and close and you can be asleep and awake with brain stem function alone. It is no different from the same person who has a heartbeat but no open eyes and no spontaneous breathing. It's just hard for people to understand the similarities without a better understanding of the lower brain function it takes to breathe, to open eyes, etc.
I think it's a shame we can't harvest this woman's organs but I realize society isn't ready for that. But if you think about it, there very well might be someone who will die that would have lived with a transplant, while this woman will never live again. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2005 : 11:07:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
In the case of your cousin, what should be done is in the eyes of the primary caregiver/guardian in charge of making medical decisions. They have to weight out the moral implications of their actions.
Even when the primary cause of his condition was neglect?
I agree that Mr. Schiavo's situation is quite different, and that his decision must be respected.
Yes. But if you have reason to believe that you could have done better and had some claim by blood to challenge the primary caregiver's judgement due to neglect, then you should have tried to have guardianship transferred to you so that you could do something about it. Legally, the primary caregiver must have the latitude to make medical decisions based on their moral and logical processes.
If those are flawed, then one should go to court to get custody of the person being neglected. I cannot place myself in a position to be responsible for other people's children unless the situation warrants it. I can't save everyone. I can only save myself and try to protect my family.
The underlying primary cause of your cousin's condition was neglect of a sort. (overindulgence) The person caring for him fed, clothed, and saw to medical needs. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2005 : 11:08:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Wendy
quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Oh and suicide would not be illegal, but failed suicides would be punishable by death...seriously.
The death penalty for something that isn't illegal?
Attempted suicide is illegal. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2005 : 11:12:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by belt
quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
comas get 3 months, tops. (Exceptions only lead to loop-holes)
Yow, I'd have one dead friend if that was the case. A car accident left my friend Darrah in a coma for almost 4 months back in 1992 when she was 16. She bought a condo last month! Good thing BigpapaS isn't dictator...yet.
Can't believe I broke my lurker status just for this post.
I don't believe that I'm actually defending BPS on his extreme value judgement here, but...
To be fair to BPS, he did say brain-dead, not merely comatose. The context in which his statement appears indicates that comatose people who show no signs of higher brain wave functions would be disconnected, not just comatose people.
BPS, please correct me if I'm wrong here. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2005 : 11:14:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Maybe in another thread where we discuss our own king of the world decrees, lets just say that the human rights division would be under PETA.
The People for Eating Tasty Animals? I'm a member.
Oh... wait...  |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2005 : 11:33:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
quote:
Originally posted by belt
quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
comas get 3 months, tops. (Exceptions only lead to loop-holes)
Yow, I'd have one dead friend if that was the case. A car accident left my friend Darrah in a coma for almost 4 months back in 1992 when she was 16. She bought a condo last month! Good thing BigpapaS isn't dictator...yet.
Can't believe I broke my lurker status just for this post.
I don't believe that I'm actually defending BPS on his extreme value judgement here, but...
To be fair to BPS, he did say brain-dead, not merely comatose. The context in which his statement appears indicates that comatose people who show no signs of higher brain wave functions would be disconnected, not just comatose people.
BPS, please correct me if I'm wrong here.
Even with that caveat, the problem is determining when the picture of brain death is irreversible. IE the scans and EEGs are inconclusive at three months. They aren't inconclusive at 3 years. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2005 : 13:09:02 [Permalink]
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Well I dont care either way, its not about possibility of coming back for me, its an issue of wasting resources on humans and last I checked humans werent in trouble of extinction any time soon. I am not "for" the extension of human life times. {Edit} US Life Expectancy at all time high
Some may recognise...
The world was not made for man,
and man was not made to conquer and rule it. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
| Edited by - BigPapaSmurf on 02/28/2005 13:21:30 |
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2005 : 13:36:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
Attempted suicide is illegal.
Where?
I'm not sure if you mean in this country, or in the world at large. I believe attempted suicide is only illegal in six states: North and South Dakota, Washington, New Jersey, Nevada, and Oklahoma.
Oregon even permits assisted suicide.
Edited to add: If you meant in BigPapaSmurf Land, nevermind. 
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Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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| Edited by - Wendy on 02/28/2005 13:48:49 |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2005 : 14:43:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Some may recognise...
The world was not made for man,
and man was not made to conquer and rule it.
No.
But man's an animal, and acts no different than any other animal. Given proper ambiental situations, they spread. And spread. And spread. That's what happens. It's just this time, the spreading part was not limited by predation. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2005 : 14:44:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Wendy
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
Attempted suicide is illegal.
Where?
I'm not sure if you mean in this country, or in the world at large. I believe attempted suicide is only illegal in six states: North and South Dakota, Washington, New Jersey, Nevada, and Oklahoma.
Oregon even permits assisted suicide.
Edited to add: If you meant in BigPapaSmurf Land, nevermind.
And then there's this:
quote:
Asbo bars suicidal woman from rivers
Steven Morris
Saturday February 26, 2005
The Guardian
A woman who has repeatedly tried to kill herself was issued with an anti-social behaviour order banning her from going near railway lines, rivers, bridges and multi-storey car parks by magistrates in Bath.
The bench was told that Kim Sutton, 23, had attempted suicide four times.
She was rescued from the river Avon three times, had been found "hanging by her fingertips" from a railway bridge, and was repeatedly spotted loitering at the top of multi-storey car parks.
Of course, after no less than four unsuccessful attempts, one might wonder how serious she is about offing herself. OR she might have been praticing for the main event later on.
So now, if she is found hanging (no pun) around bridges and so forth, she gets jail. Hell of a way to treat a mental disorder, eh?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2005 : 14:50:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Wendy
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
Attempted suicide is illegal.
Where?
I'm not sure if you mean in this country, or in the world at large. I believe attempted suicide is only illegal in six states: North and South Dakota, Washington, New Jersey, Nevada, and Oklahoma.
Oregon even permits assisted suicide.
Edited to add: If you meant in BigPapaSmurf Land, nevermind.
It's also illegal in IL and many other states. MI and OR have tried assisted suicide carveouts from the attempted suicide statutes. The feds continue to stick their noses into it. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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kmay
New Member
1 Post |
Posted - 03/01/2005 : 08:32:33 [Permalink]
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Here's a link to get the history and information without the slant of the media: http://www.terrisfight.org/
She meets no legal definition of a "shell" and, in fact, could have rights to therapy that should put Michael on the defensive.
Her husband certainly does not have Terri's best interest at heart. Divorce her, but don't kill her, when her parents are more than willing to give her the benefit of the doubt! |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2005 : 09:08:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by kmay
Here's a link to get the history and information without the slant of the media: http://www.terrisfight.org/
The web site of Terris parents can hardly be called without slant.
Welcome to the SFN, kmay! |
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