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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 03/30/2005 : 18:56:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Timgraysr
The very first and continued voice of CNN and CBS described her as a brain dead girl.
As a person who has CNN on all day at work, I can state with utter certainty that no CNN anchorperson has ever described Terri Schiavo as "a brain dead girl." They describe her as a severely brain-damaged woman, and often go on to describe her as being in a persistent vegetative state.quote:
As you can tell, I listened to both.
You might listen to both, but I can tell which people you pay attention to. It's not CNN, that's for sure.quote:
Michael Schiavo is the epitimy of all that is evil in this world. The opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference. To summerise, everyone might believe in him but as for me, I remain skepticle.
You are not "skeptical" if you have concluded that Schiavo is the "epitomy of all that is evil in this world." You have only paid attention to half of the voices out there, and done none of the research. Have you read Wolfson's report? Have you examined Terri's medical records?
You're not skeptical, Mr. Gray, you're prejudiced.
Tell us again why you think Florida's marriage and end-of-life laws are incorrect. Oh, that's right: you haven't told us even once why they're wrong. You can't seem to muster any sort of rational or legal argument as to why you and those who agree with you should be allowed to intrude on the Schiavo family. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2005 : 19:47:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Timgraysr:
Yes I listen to Rush and I listen to Hennity and if you could stand the conviction that the truth yealds you would too.
I love this quote. Tim, you have made my day. Since talk radio has never had much more than a passing acquaintance with the truth, and just about everyone knows that, even its fans, I have to conclude that either you really have fallen off a turnip truck or you are visitor from another planet, not familiar with our ways and customs.
Anyhow, thanks for the laugh. After a long day at work, I needed that. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 00:53:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
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I have doubts that this woman is still a nurse, as a search of the current list of liscensed nurses in FL turns zero results for her name. .....
Interesting. She claimed in her affadavit she was currently a registered nurse. However, at the time of the supposed fantasy of hers she was a nurses' aide. She supposedly worked for 4 months in 1993 in the nursing home Terri was previously in. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 01:30:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Timgraysr
Dude, I knew you were rude. I didn't know yoou were stupid though. If a person states something that they believe to be true, it is not a lie. It is an error.
Well in psychiatry it is usually referred to as pathological lying, not pathological errors. Besides, I for one, can only assess the validity of Ns Iyer's claims. I cannot assess the motive nor the fervor with which she believes in her statements. I can say the claims indicate she is likely a pathological liar. I don't think I said anywhere that she definitely was one. Hopefully I didn't say that anyway.
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...if it were your wife would you started dating after a year and a half? Probably if you either did't care or were convinced she was already dead. If that's the case why not discontinue the life support then. I love my wife. It if happened to her I would do what I could as soon as I could to aid her life or her suffering and not wait for another ten years. Come on man. Show me the love there.
This whole premise is absurd. Why would you need to stop loving your brain dead wife because you started a new relationship? People love more than one parent, more than one sibling, more than one child. You can continue to care greatly for a person and still begin a new relationship. Everything I have heard Michael Schiavo say seems to me to reinforce my perception that he cares a lot for his wife despite having a new relationship. In fact, someone who didn't care that much would have given up on this battle years ago.
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Even though for the first year she was reacting to thearpy he discontinued it.
BS. This is complete fabrication. If you'd have read the medical evidence and the court transcripts you'd see there is nothing of the sort mentioned. You think if there was a shred of truth in this claim the parents wouldn't have presented it to the courts?
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Ok Dude you followed the money trail didn't you? You know for about all Michaels funds in this matter. So tell me, if they would prove conclusivly that she was brain dead why not have the MRI. If it were your wife, daughter or mother, wouldn't you want to know? Awnsering your question. I do love my wife and I would want to know conclusivly.
Assuming there wasn't sufficient evidence already but clearly there is. This crap about 'just one more test' or 'the diagnosis isn't certain' has been more than answered. You just ignore the answers and go on as if they weren't there.
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How can you stick up for this jerk.
How can you condemn this man you know absolutely nothing about based on unsubstantiated claims made by TV and radio personalities, religious zealots, and attention getting flakes?
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Do you believe OJ innocent?
Oh for Pete's sake. What does this even mean?
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Where is the love that now nearing the time of her death he refuses to allow the Father and Mother to have the body for burial. He wants her cremated. Oh but he is so nice that he said he wanted an autopsy performed so everyone would be sure. Florida law dictates that there will be an autopsy.
Well if he didn't want an autopsy then why choose cremation if that is the law? I heard that same crap as well. You lose in court after court. The medical argument she isn't in a PVS is dispelled by overwhelming evidence. The "he's in it for money" is disproved by the facts. What is left but to make up some outrageous claim now that Michael Schiavo wants to cover up the fact he caused his wife's injuries. So what, the whole medical history is now wrong?
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Yes I listen to Rush and I listen to Hennity and if you could stand the conviction that the truth yealds you would too.
I addressed this in my post and you ignored it and repeated your nonsense.
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The very first and continued voice of CNN and CBS described her as a brain dead girl. If that was all I listened I may believe as you. As you can tell, I listened to both. You might want to try it.
And you might like to read the court transcripts and the published medical evidence instead of mere opinion.
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Michael Schiavo is the epitimy of all that is evil in this world. The opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference. To summerise, everyone might believe in him but as for me, I remain skepticle.
No, you are not skeptical. You believe a bunch of propaganda instead of investigating the evidence to get to the truth. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 01:35:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Well, South Park has now weighed in on this matter, in classic style.
I am always impressed how quickly they write their new scripts. I especially liked near the end when Kenny's will said if I am ever in a PVS, I don't want to be on display.
I have to admire Michael Schiavo's very low profile despite the outrageous claims that have been leveled against him. It may be that he truly doesn't want to make a media circus of his very personal tragedy. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 03:21:59 [Permalink]
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Sometimes I too, have difficulty facing reality. For example, I find it difficult to accept that there are actually people on this planet who don't see Limbaugh for what he really is: a know-nothing, blowhard demagoge who will ignore facts in favor of fabrications; and waste time ridiculing sincere people solely for the entertainment of his less-than-thoughtful audience, and to fluff his own, warped and prodigious ego.
Here's something that might help put this howler monkey in perspective. It's a little old, but what was true then is no less true now.
quote:
The Way Things Aren't:
Rush Limbaugh Debates Reality
Press Release (3/8/92)
Most of us here in the media are what I consider infotainers.... Rush Limbaugh is what I call a disinfotainer. He entertains by spreading disinformation.
--Al Franken at the White House Correspondents' Dinner (4/23/94)
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Rush Limbaugh has gotten a lot of mileage out of his claim that volcanoes do more harm to the ozone layer than human-produced chemicals. He featured it in his best-selling book, The Way Things Ought to Be (paperback edition pp. 155-157): "Mount Pinatubo in the Philippines spewed forth more than a thousand times the amount of ozone-depleting chemicals in one eruption than all the fluorocarbons manufactured by wicked, diabolical and insensitive corporations in history.... Mankind can't possibly equal the output of even one eruption from Pinatubo, much less 4 billion years' worth of them, so how can we destroy ozone?"
Limbaugh calls concern about the ozone layer: "balderdash. Poppycock." The only people who worry about it are "environmental wackos," "dunderheaded alarmists and prophets of doom."
Syndicated columnist Thomas Sowell (New York Post, 1/14/94) used the volcano theory as Exhibit A to illustrate Limbaugh's "very well-informed and savvy understanding of the political issues of our time." "While far more pretentious people have been joining the chorus of hysteria over 'global warming,'" Sowell wrote, "Limbaugh pointed out in his [first] book that one of the high readings of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere came right after a volcanic eruption--and volcanoes can put more gases into the atmosphere than the entire human race."
The alert reader will notice that Sowell has mixed up global warming and the ozone layer, two different problems. Still, Sowell concluded of Limbaugh, "It is obvious that the man has done his homework--and done it well."
As can already be noted, the rest of the media, no longer having much belly for a fight however righteous the cause, and being somewhat lose with the facts themselves, handle Limbaugh with kid gloves.
quote:
Unchallenged Demagoguery
This kind of sloppiness, ignorance and/or fabrication is run of the mill in Limbaugh's commentary, both broadcast and print. From dioxin to Whitewater, from Rodney King to Reaganomics, Rush Limbaugh has a finely honed ability to twist and distort reality.
Limbaugh's facts are almost never challenged on his programs. A hostile caller hardly ever gets through the screeners on his radio show, and his TV show is just him doing a monologue in front of his cheering audience. No one in the history of national television has had such a political platform. He has almost never corrected anything he's said--although he did apologize once to the aerosol industry for implying that spray cans still had CFCs in them. (CFCs were removed in 1978.)
Limbaugh's chronic inaccuracy, and his lack of accountability, wouldn't be such a problem if Limbaugh were just a cranky entertainer, like Howard Stern. But Limbaugh is taken seriously by "serious" media--in addition to Nightline, he's been an "expert" on such chat shows as Charlie Rose and Meet the Press. The New York Times (10/15/92) and Newsweek (1/24/94) have published his writings. A U.S. News & World Report piece (8/16/93) by Steven Roberts declared, "The information Mr. Limbaugh provides is generally accurate."
He's also taken seriously as a political figure. A National Review cover story (9/6/93) declared him the "Leader of the Opposition." Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, who recently officiated at Limbaugh's wedding, says he tapes Limbaugh's radio show and listens to it as he works out (USA Today, 5/13/94).
FAIR is publishing a compilation of some of Limbaugh's more obvious whoppers in order to convince journalists and political leaders alike that when Limbaugh says, "I'm not making this up, folks," it's time to duck and cover.
Journalists, in particular, have an obligation to challenge Limbaugh's brand of hysteria. Someone who has amassed a powerful political following through the regular use of half-truth and distortion is begging for tough media scrutiny. In 1954, Edward R. Murrow confronted another demagogue who had a similar allergy to facts and documentation. Today's TV networks don't ask themselves how they can challenge Limbaugh's reign of error--but how they can profit from him. CBS News, the platform from which Murrow denounced Joe McCarthy, has been seeking to hire Limbaugh as a political commentator.
Having Rush as a political commentator would be doing a huge disservice to any and all of the CBS audience, and indeed the country in general. I think that it would be a mistake that would gain them some of his fans, but at the cost of much of their original audience. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't his idiot's mouth get him fired as a foozeball football commentator when he made derogatory comments concerning a black quarterback, a few years ago?
quote:
Real democracy is built on debate. But Limbaugh has little use for debates; he has forged a media empire largely on unchallenged monologues. The following confrontation--Limbaugh vs. Reality--is an attempt at stimulating (or at least simulating) a debate.
The list of fallacies compiled here is not exhaustive. It was assembled from easily available sources--Limbaugh's books, The Way Things Ought to Be and See, I Told You So; transcripts of several weeks' worth of his TV show; gleanings from as much of his radio show as we could take; and other published evaluations of Limbaugh's accuracy. (There's a publication, the Flush Rush Quarterly (FRQ), largely devoted to chronicling Limbaugh's falsehoods, and a book, The Bum's Rush by Don Trent Jacobs, that debunks his environmental rhetoric.) As Josh Shenk showed in The New Republic ("Limbaugh's Lies", 5/23/94), scrutinizing the TV show for a month results in errors too numerous to count.
"There's a pathology here, folks," is a phrase Limbaugh likes to use when discussing President Clinton's alleged inability to tell the truth. A psychiatrist might agree--and label it projection.
quote:
Limbaugh vs. Reality
Bogus Economics
LIMBAUGH: On California contractor C.C. Myers completing repairs 74 days early on the earthquake-damaged Santa Monica Freeway |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 03:59:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Timgraysr
Michael Schiavo is the epitimy of all that is evil in this world. The opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference. To summerise, everyone might believe in him but as for me, I remain skepticle.
People like you who use their willful ignorance to justify their hate mongering makes me sick.
Your uninformed opinions are of no value to the world.
I hope that Terri will pass away soon. Then her parents can go on with their life and the threats to Michael Schiavo and his family will decrease as the hypocritical ignoramuses will find other issues where they can tout their character flaws.
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"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 04:05:46 [Permalink]
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O Lord, if in truth You are the real deal, please spare us from the insanity of Your servants:
quote:
Norm Olson: Parents' lawyer thwarted plan to send militias to aid Terri Schiavo
BY FRED GRAY NEWS-REVIEW STAFF WRITER
Wednesday, March 30, 2005 12:39 PM EST
Norm Olson, senior adviser to the Michigan militia and pastor of a strong right-to-life church in Wolverine, said Tuesday he had put together an unarmed coalition of state militias that were prepared to storm the Florida hospice where Terri Schiavo has been left to die, and take her to a safe house.
Olson said he needed only the OK from Schiavo's father, Robert Schindler, either directly or through his attorney David Gibbs, to put the plan, called "Operation Resurrection," into action on Sunday.
But Olson said Gibbs contacted the FBI instead of passing his message on to Schindler.
Olson said the FBI had been monitoring e-mails within militia groups and on Tuesday, March 29, sent an agent from Traverse City to his home in Alanson and other agents to militia leaders in the South to question them about the plan.
The FBI was unavailable for comment.
Olson said that last Thursday he phoned Gibbs' secretary with a message that he had organized 1,500 to 2,000 militia members from Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Florida, Georgia and Michigan, who were ready to remove Schiavo from the hospice and take her in a convoy to a safe house.
What next to be seen in this vile comedy that has virtually taken over the news?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 04:59:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
LIMBAUGH: "The poorest people in America are better off than the mainstream families of Europe." (Radio show, quoted in FRQ, Spring/93)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
oooohhh
*wipes tears from eyes*
I've been in America for half a year. I've been all over Europe on vacations (the active type, volunteer work and such). This statement just made my day. No really, even the average family in eastern Europe (the post communist ones) is better of than the poorest family in America. Even better, from what I've seen, even the poorest families in Eastern Europe are probably not that much worse of than the poorest families in America. Can he really say that sort of thing and keep a straight face? Amazing. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 05:19:25 [Permalink]
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I think this is an old myth based in how it was a few generations ago combined with anti-communist propaganda.
A friend of mine visited some relatives in the US in the 80s. His old swedish born relative took him to a supermarket just to show him how big the steaks were and how much food there was available in the US. The idea that Sweden had changed a bit since the great depression did not occur to him.
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 05:26:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Dude, I knew you were rude. I didn't know yoou were stupid though. If a person states something that they believe to be true, it is not a lie. It is an error.
When you make a statement that is contrary to evidence, and it is reasonable to expect you to be aware of the evidence, it is called a LIE, Tim.
You are a liar for repeating the nonsense and bullshit you hear on Hannity and Rush.
HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY IT? THOSE TWO JACKASSES (Hannity/Rush) ARE NOT JOURNALISTS! THEY ARE PUNDITS, WHO EXIST ONLY TO FEED YOU PROPAGANDA.
Now, if you willingly choose to believe their lies.... that is entirely your concern. But, when you come here and repeat them, you should expect to be called out, and you should be prepared to provide evidence to back your claims.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 06:03:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Starman
I think this is an old myth based in how it was a few generations ago combined with anti-communist propaganda.
A friend of mine visited some relatives in the US in the 80s. His old swedish born relative took him to a supermarket just to show him how big the steaks were and how much food there was available in the US. The idea that Sweden had changed a bit since the great depression did not occur to him.
True. Although I must say that the supermarkets really were huge, and had a lot more choice than most supermarkets in the Netherlands. But this choice wasn't a choice in different things, but in different brands of the same thing. And that had a general disadvantage. American supermarkets, due to their diverse selection, are expensive in comparison to dutch supermarkets. I tell you, from what I was paying in Boston, I could buy twice as much in a regular supermarket here in the Netherlands. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 06:17:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
Dude, I knew you were rude. I didn't know yoou were stupid though. If a person states something that they believe to be true, it is not a lie. It is an error.
When you make a statement that is contrary to evidence, and it is reasonable to expect you to be aware of the evidence, it is called a LIE, Tim.
You are a liar for repeating the nonsense and bullshit you hear on Hannity and Rush.
HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY IT? THOSE TWO JACKASSES (Hannity/Rush) ARE NOT JOURNALISTS! THEY ARE PUNDITS, WHO EXIST ONLY TO FEED YOU PROPAGANDA.
Now, if you willingly choose to believe their lies.... that is entirely your concern. But, when you come here and repeat them, you should expect to be called out, and you should be prepared to provide evidence to back your claims.
I find it a bit unsettling that so many people come here and jump right in without first looking at what they're getting into. This might not be the most hard-nosed, skeptic site on the web, but it's not far removed, and too many visitors are unprepared for that. It shows a sad lack of critical thought.
Tim, we will call anybody who makes unsubtantiated claims out in less time than it takes to put the period on the last sentence of that claim. It could be the Christ during the Second Coming making the claim, we don't care. We'll still demand verification. And further, we are perfectly willing to pick that verification apart to satisfy ourselves that it is creditable. It's what skeptics do, bro.
On the other hand, we're pretty much wide open. We've had only one person ever banned from here, and that one was an arrogent oaf who's only claim to verasity was an insulting and barely coherent, and really rather boring repetition (toward the end of his tenure, I was having fun with him -- what a turkey!  ).
So, in the interest of avoiding embarressment and keeping the blood pressure under control, I'd suggest that you give this forum some thought, do a little research, marshall your arguments, then give us your best, carefully-considered shot.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 07:37:13 [Permalink]
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Sanjay Gupta, of CNN, just claimed that Hannesfahr is a neurologist. Ooops. Not according to the court, he's not.
Anyway, CNN also just took another step down the road to pandering to America's need to pry, by showing video of Hannesfahr examining Terri years ago. I don't think Terri's face appears at all. It's pretty disgusting to me, the idea that there's a large market for such things, and businesses like CNN can't seem to muster even a little discretion. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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