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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 03/30/2005 : 03:37:43 [Permalink]
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I don't get it. What do these people hope to accomplish?
quote:
Pa. college professor arrested at Schiavo hospice
Associated Press
PINELLAS PARK, Fla. - A professor at a Bible college near Scranton, Pa., was arrested Tuesday as he tried to storm into the hospice caring for Terri Schiavo.
Dow Pursley, 56, was zapped with a Taser stun gun and tackled to the ground by officers before he reached the door, Pinellas Park police said. He became the 47th protester arrested.
Pursley, who is on the faculty of the Baptist Bible College & Seminary in Clarks Summit, Pa., had two bottles of water with him, police said. He was charged with attempted burglary and resisting arrest.
Being something of a shade-tree anarchist myself, I can appaluad the effort and the futility, if not the idiotcy. As anyone who's been paying even slight attention knows, even if she were given water, it would only speed things up by drowning her or giving her pnumonia, at best. That makes any symbolic meaning tied to the efforts suck. Are they suddenly in favor of a euthanasia fully as horrible as starvation, but quicker?
This starvation business, even though she doesn't know that she's being starved, makes me uneasy as well. Frankly, I find it despicable. I keep thinking that there's got to be a better way. And of course, there is, but we are so hysterical over the concept of no longer having a personal existance that we can't deal with it rationally. And our 'leaders' happily pander to those fears toward their own ends.
"The only causes worth fighting for are the lost ones."
Terri's cause was lost and finished 15 years ago. The lost cause is and has always been getting some Death with Dignity laws on the books.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2005 : 03:41:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
(CNN reports that Jesse Jackson has now become yet another politician trying to butt in on private business.)
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
b) Hammerfahr who believes that by increasing the blood flow to dead tissue, you'll get something other than dead tissue. He also has not examined Terri or her medical records. At least he wants to put her in a hyperbaric chamber and pump her full of drugs.
Hammesfahr was one of two doctors hired by Terri's parents due to a court order for five doctors (preferrably neurologists) to review Terri's case. (Had I been the judge, I would have ordered neurologists or other brain experts, and this guy would have been voir dired out of my courtroom, but I wasn't.) Hammesfahr spent a total of ten hours with Terri over two days, and did examine her medical records. But his hyperbaric quackery disqualifies him of being an unbiased expert, even if he weren't on the Schindler's payroll.
Dammit, twice in two days. I gotta pay more attention to stories.
The whole think screamed quack to me when he started talking about hyperbaric chambers and drugs. My first impulse was to write this guy and tell him to get bent. (pun intended)
The only use I knew of for hyperbaric chambers was for decompression sickness. (Yes, I'm a PADI certified open water diver, why do you ask?)
I knew that the Cheshire guy (Mayo clinic doctor) had not examined Schiavo or her medical records and applied that to the Quack Hammesfahr. It seemed incongruent to medical opinion that a neurologist faced with a pool of liquid where a cerebral cortex used to be would claim that he could treat her successfully.
I thought the Mayo clinic doctor had seen her for 90 minutes and studied her medical records. Anyone here who has more information on this? |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2005 : 05:09:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
If you are asking if pulling a feeding tube from a brain dead loved one and letting them go is an act of compassion as I see it. Yes.
hahahahahahahaha!
Tim, you lie. You have stated a couple times that removing the tube from Mrs Schiavo is wrong.
But I think I know the source of your problems. You listen to Rush and watch Hannity, AND you accept them as a credible source of news. A fatal mistake on your part. Those two are nothing more than the loudest pieces of the republican spin machine.
WHile most of the actual words they speak are true, the are expert lairs through the use of distorted context and partial truth. They exist ONLY to spread the propaganda that you have so obviously bought into.
Click this link for an example.
quote:
Enough so that even though I confess I may be wrong, on the slimest chance I cannot condone possibly torturing and innocent woman to dearh.
Again, then where is your outrage about Sun Hudson? Where is your outrage about the hundreds of people executed each year in this country (Most of whom have spent FAR LESS time in the court system than Terri Schiavo) who might not be guilty? DNA evidence has totally exonerated many death row inmates recently, shouldn't we then be reviewing EVERY death row case before we execute another person? There is, afterall, more than a SLIM chance that some of those people will be brutally electrocuted, gassed, or injected.... for crimes they did not commit. In fact, it's almost a 100% guarantee that atleast one of them is innocent, and a very high chance that there are many innocent people about to be wrongfully killed.
quote:
Where is the bias from the nurses that say she was responsive.
There was only one such person, just ONE. Her name is Carla Sauer Iyer. Her accusations were found to be totally without merit by a judge, a conservative, christian, republican judge at that. The only place she could obtain any airtime was FOX, their website had a video up a while back, can't find it now... but here is some of the transcript:
Scroll down just over half way and you'll see the nurse's name in bold http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151140,00.html
I have doubts that this woman is still a nurse, as a search of the current list of liscensed nurses in FL turns zero results for her name. This is the woman who made the claim that the nursing home would alter her documentation, that Mr Schiavo said, out loud, "is the bitch dead yet?", and who apparently went to the police with some serious accusations.
In fact, you can read all of her accusations right here: http://www.terrisfight.org/documents/CIyerAffidavit090203.htm
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An MRI or a PET would have awnsered some of the questions but Michael refused to have them done. Probably because he would have had to release the money for it out of the trust he shares with Terri from a medical malpractice.
Sentence one, yes. A PET or MRI would have added to the weight of clinical evidence. Sentence two, STOP letting Rush fill your head, THINK for yourself man. Mr Schiavo doesn't control the trust fund. He already had his share of the malpractice money. The $700k that was for Terri's care, is ONLY for her care. He doesn't get any of that cash. And, as pointed out, her care has depleted that fund to almost nothing at this point.
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On record, the first five years the Hospice acted on Michaels first statement of what his wife would want. He said he had no idea.
What "record" would that be? Why don't you provide us a link to that record? Also, to set the (sorry) record straight, Terri has only been in the care of Hospice for a couple of years.
quote:
Something is up.
Yeah, something is up allright. It's called the neocons are motivating you, and people like you, who refuse to examine reality for yourself, to get out and vote in the 2006 elections. The Schiavo case is, per the republican congress, a "great political issue". One that will motivate the "right to life" if it is spun by the pundits enough. Politically, it's a great strategy. It makes people like yourself vote solidly against your own best interest (and that of your children) because you are convinced you are voting for some moral cause.
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I am angry about it. I am also angry that so many want to just "Let it Be".
If it were your wife, and you were convinced that she would never recover, would remain in a PVS until death, and you are convinced that it would not be your wife's wish to be artificially maintained via the various tubes.... and Rush, Hannity, Randal Terry, Tom DeLay, the US Congress, and an angry mob of religious zealots decided that you were trying to murder your wife.... what would your response be?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2005 : 07:15:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tomk80
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
(CNN reports that Jesse Jackson has now become yet another politician trying to butt in on private business.)
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
b) Hammerfahr who believes that by increasing the blood flow to dead tissue, you'll get something other than dead tissue. He also has not examined Terri or her medical records. At least he wants to put her in a hyperbaric chamber and pump her full of drugs.
Hammesfahr was one of two doctors hired by Terri's parents due to a court order for five doctors (preferrably neurologists) to review Terri's case. (Had I been the judge, I would have ordered neurologists or other brain experts, and this guy would have been voir dired out of my courtroom, but I wasn't.) Hammesfahr spent a total of ten hours with Terri over two days, and did examine her medical records. But his hyperbaric quackery disqualifies him of being an unbiased expert, even if he weren't on the Schindler's payroll.
Dammit, twice in two days. I gotta pay more attention to stories.
The whole think screamed quack to me when he started talking about hyperbaric chambers and drugs. My first impulse was to write this guy and tell him to get bent. (pun intended)
The only use I knew of for hyperbaric chambers was for decompression sickness. (Yes, I'm a PADI certified open water diver, why do you ask?)
I knew that the Cheshire guy (Mayo clinic doctor) had not examined Schiavo or her medical records and applied that to the Quack Hammesfahr. It seemed incongruent to medical opinion that a neurologist faced with a pool of liquid where a cerebral cortex used to be would claim that he could treat her successfully.
I thought the Mayo clinic doctor had seen her for 90 minutes and studied her medical records. Anyone here who has more information on this?
He sat with her for 90 minutes and examined the court records.
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/nation/11213061.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
| Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 03/30/2005 07:15:39 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2005 : 08:13:27 [Permalink]
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And the bottom line is:
quote:
ASHINGTON, March 28 - The parents of Terri Schiavo have authorized a conservative direct-mailing firm to sell a list of their financial supporters, making it likely that thousands of strangers moved by her plight will receive a steady stream of solicitations from anti-abortion and conservative groups.
"These compassionate pro-lifers donated toward Bob Schindler's legal battle to keep Terri's estranged husband from removing the feeding tube from Terri," says a description of the list on the Web site of the firm, Response Unlimited, which is asking $150 a month for 6,000 names and $500 a month for 4,000 e-mail addresses of people who responded last month to an e-mail plea from Ms. Schiavo's father. "These individuals are passionate about the way they value human life, adamantly oppose euthanasia and are pro-life in every sense of the word!"
Privacy experts said the sale of the list was legal and even predictable, if ghoulish.
"I think it's amusing," said Robert Gellman, a privacy and information policy consultant. "I think it's absolutely classic America. Everything is for sale in America, every type of personal information."
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 03/30/2005 08:14:47 |
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2005 : 08:37:27 [Permalink]
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We subscribe to Newsweek. They had a couple of excellent articles this week about Terri Schiavo. The first article, The Legacy of Terri Schiavo by Arian Campo-Flores, is much better in the magazine itself as there is content that is not included online, but I hope the following quote will shed some light on Michael Shiavo's character:
quote:
In the early years of her condition, Michael and the Schindlers got along harmoniously, even living together in a house on the Gulf Coast for a while. They ensured that Terri received all variety of therapies, including physical, occupational and recreational. When those didn't work, Michael flew her out to California, where a doctor implanted platinum electrodes into her brain as part of an experimental procedure that ultimately failed. Back in Florida, Michael enlisted family members to record audiotapes of their voices, which he played for Terri on a Walkman. He was fastidious about Terri's appearance, spraying her with Picasso perfume and outfitting her in stirrup pants and matching tops from The Limited. At one Florida nursing home, he was so demanding that administrators sought a restraining order against him. But Gloria Centonze, who worked there at the time (and by coincidence later married into the family of Michael's future girlfriend), recalls a frequent comment among the nurses: "He may be a bastard, but if I was sick like that, I wish he was my husband." To better care for Terri, Michael even enrolled in nursing school.
He worked with her parents and doctors. He did every reasonable thing and more to assist her in a recovery. When he realized no recovery is possible, he dedicated himself to carrying out her wish not to live as she now does.
Anna Quindlan (no relation to Karen Ann Quinlan) wrote a column titled The Culture of Each Life. She makes several good points in the article, but this was my favorite part:
quote:
There are many ways in which this case has been divvied up in public. Spouse vs. parents. Liberals vs. conservatives. Secular vs. religious. But it is truly about that thing that defines free human beings: the right to self-determination instead of a one-size-fits-all approach in private matters, in those issues that take place in bedrooms and kitchens and hospices. It's a primal demand for a personal sense of control in the face of intrusive government, intrusive medicine and intrusive strangers who think holding a crucifix like a blunt instrument makes them righteous when it really only makes them sanctimonious.
Speaking of making good points, I see what you meant about Jesse Jackson, Dave W.
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Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2005 : 09:41:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Timgraysr
However, Jessie Jackson is now involved maby some will trust what he says. I know I sure am glad that he stepped in.
You may not after the string of stuff he go involved in Chicago.
First, he gets into a dispute in Decatur where three punks start a fight in grandstands and get themselves expelled from school. He cries racism and heads down to stand with these guys who have lengthy disiplinary records for fighting.
Next, he comes out in support for the owners of the E2 Nightclub. He claimed racism in the city's severe treatment of the establishment's owners. The E2 nightclub was not authorized to be operating due to safety violations. They had quite a large crowd when someone working security discharged pepper spray to break up a fight. Only one exit was unblocked and the resultant crush killed 21 and injured 50.
He is generally regarded within the Republican circles as an opportunist and as a new paraih in Democratic circles. His trust quotient is severely diminished from the time he walked with King. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2005 : 12:40:50 [Permalink]
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This is an excellent article. It will link you to here. This latter site contains information on 'living wills' for each state and how to go about filling one out. Here in NC at least, the forms can be had at any hospital and witness' can be anyone not related. The notary in my case is the Vice Prez of my M/C.
Just thought I'd pass it along and perhaps help prevent someone and their family from being victimized by fundementilst, would-be-tyrant, rat-bastards of any and all stripes.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2005 : 13:01:49 [Permalink]
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Thanks for the link, filthy. I compared the form for Kentucky to a Living Will we prepared at the law office where I work and there is no material difference.
I'll have a new Living Will before the end of the day. 
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Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2005 : 13:23:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Wendy
Thanks for the link, filthy. I compared the form for Kentucky to a Living Will we prepared at the law office where I work and there is no material difference.
I'll have a new Living Will before the end of the day.
10/4, and may it never have to be put into force.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2005 : 14:29:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Timgraysr
.....Where is the bias from the nurses that say she was responsive.
Which nurses?
This is such a bunch of garbage and an insult to the nursing profession. I have heard rational nurses who cared for this woman claim she wasn't responsive. The ones who supposedly claimed she was responsive were examples like Carla Iyer who's rant was so absurd it was immediately dismissed. One of the neurologists responding to the lies on FOX and Scarborough was so disgusted he came out and said these people were ridiculous. For example there supposedly wasn't any CAT scan. The idea this rumor had any truth to it is so laughable. Any one with a brain injury such as Terri would have had a number of CAT scans to look for stroke or head injuries. The images were in the court record of the CAT scan showing the woman's brain atrophy, the images are available on the net. Nurse's aide Iyer's affidavit is delusional claiming all the staff in the nursing home conspired to cover up Iyer's chart notes by deleting them every day.
So let's get one thing clear here, a nurses' aide has 6 weeks of training and only needs a high school diploma before that. A nurses' aide is not licensed. In order to perform some functions they can get a certificate to work under the supervision of a licensed nurse. Ns's aid Iyer only worked at the nursing home Terri was in for 4 months in 1993. Not to belittle the excellent job that some aides perform, nor the importance of the care they give, but nurses' aides are not nurses!!!!! They are aides to nurses.
Nurses have college degrees or have attended hospital based programs. Not all nurses have 4 year or better degrees. Again, not to belittle any hospital trained, any LPN or any associate degreed nurse, but all nurses are not the same. One of the problems we have in our profession is not doing a better job distinguishing between our own ranks. There is no way the observational skills or medical knowledge of an aide, an LPN, or an RN with 2 years of college and no experience is equal to my professional opinion with a Master's degree and 30 years experience.
So, while all of us do very important jobs and no one is 'more worthy' because of education or experience, anyone with the title of 'nurse' is not automatically skilled nor knowledgeable enough to make a valid observation about whether or not a patient is 'responsive' to stimuli. Not to mention being called a nurse doesn't automatically raise one above the suspicion of being a flake. For that matter being a neurologist doesn't automatically raise one above the suspicion of being a flake as Dr Hammersfahr's example clearly shows.
The preponderance of evidence in this case has been evaluated by numerous courts. Judge Greer may have made the latest decision but his ruling was reviewed by numerous courts. Regardless of the nonsense being bantered around by the opposition, the medical evidence was not missing this piece or that piece. The other courts were not only looking at some little small bit of evidence in the case before Greer. That evidence was very thorough as far as the medical evaluation of Terri Schiavo. There is no credible medical dissent, only lies about the credibility of that dissent. I have seen the medical evidence that is available on the Internet. I have read sections of the court record like Iyer's idiotic affidavit and other claims Terri responds to stimuli. It is BS. And it is sad that supposedly responsible news media are putting on the idiots like Iyer, or the sad family members that I'm sure believe Terri is responsive in their denial. And people like you are claiming to have 'learned' this or that about the case. Well, you haven't 'learned' these things. You have read them and believe them. And they are garbage.
quote:
Today I heard part of the early medical treatments she was getting. Did you know she was walking with bar assist for a while. An MRI or a PET would have answered some of the questions but Michael refused to have them done.
Did you know this is complete and utter nonsense? Where's that family home movie of these walking incidents. Where's the medical record of these walking events? And do you know a PET scan or an MRI, (whether they were done or not done because I don't know and am not going to buy into that nonsense from the same idiots claiming no EEG and no CT scans were done), would not answer any question that isn't answered or the judge would have ordered them done. Think about it. The Schindlers have been fighting this court battle for years. You don't think they could have requested one of these supposed missing tests that would supposedly answer whatever question you don't think has been answered? Why on Earth not? Because Michael didn't want to pay? Give me a break. That is absolutely absurd.
Why don't you look into these claims you believe before just assuming they are true?quote:
I would ask you to listed to Rush or Hennity and Combs but, if you are a liberal (or not a conservitive, however you say it without offending) you probanly will not.
Oh I have listened all right. And I am so appalled by the lies these guys are putting on the air just to further their own careers. They are making the most blatant statements now about Michael Schiavo having supposedly abused his wife and caused the injuries and wants his wife dead because if she got a little speech therapy she might be able to say what he did to her. This is the most irresponsible journalism I have ever seen.
I have checked these facts. There is sufficient real evidence available to know the difference between a small number of biased persons' claims and the facts. The fact you believe the garbage out there is a sad statement about how easily the people like Limbaugh, Hannity, and Scarborough can manipulate propaganda and control people's beliefs when the facts are so readily available. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2005 : 14:39:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tomk80
I thought the Mayo clinic doctor had seen her for 90 minutes and studied her medical records. Anyone here who has more information on this?
From the NY Times:
quote:
Yesterday, in an affidavit supporting a petition by the Florida Department of Children and Families in the case, Dr. Cheshire said it was more likely that Ms. Schiavo was in a "minimally conscious state."
"Although Terri did not demonstrate during our 90-minute visit compelling evidence of verbalization, conscious awareness or volitional behavior," he wrote, "yet the visitor has the distinct sense of the presence of a living human being who seems at some level to be aware of some things around her."
Mr. Bush called Dr. Cheshire a "renowned neurologist," but he is not widely known in the neurology or bioethics fields. Asked about him, Dr. Arthur Caplan, director of the Center for Bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania, replied, "Who?"
Dr. Cheshire, who graduated from Princeton and earned a medical degree at West Virginia University, did not return calls to the Mayo Clinic seeking comment. The clinic said in a statement that his work on the Schiavo case was not related to his work at the clinic and that the state had invited his opinion. "He observed the patient at her bedside and conducted an extensive review of her medical history but did not conduct an examination," the statement said.
Dr. Caplan said that was not good enough. "There is just no excuse for going in and making any pronouncement about the state that Terri Schiavo is in unless you're going to go in and do some form of technologically mediated scanning that would overturn what's on the record already," he said.
Dr. Ronald Cranford, a neurologist and medical ethicist at the University of Minnesota Medical School who has examined Ms. Schiavo on behalf of the Florida courts and declared her to be irredeemably brain-damaged, said, "I have no idea who this Cheshire is," and added: "He has to be bogus, a pro-life fanatic. You'll not find any credible neurologist or neurosurgeon to get involved at this point and say she's not vegetative."
He said there was no doubt that Ms. Schiavo was in a persistent vegetative state. "Her CAT scan shows massive shrinkage of the brain," he said. "Her EEG is flat - flat. There's no electrical activity coming from her brain."
There have been a couple of doctors besides Hammersfahr to claim the diagnosis of PVS might be wrong. But look at this guy's own statement, "Although Terri did not demonstrate during our 90-minute visit compelling evidence of verbalization, conscious awareness or volitional behavior," he wrote, "yet the visitor has the distinct sense of the presence of a living human being who seems at some level to be aware of some things around her." Is that testimony of a questionable PVS? Or of someone's religious belief life is in there no matter what the brain is capable of? |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2005 : 14:44:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Judge Greer may have made the latest decision but his ruling was reviewed by numerous courts.
Greer's been the primary lower-court judge in this matter for a long time. In fact, Dr. Carpenter (the Schindler family doctor - not a neurologist) claimed for the microphones today that Judge Greer "has been trying to kill Terri for years." Carpenter, by the way, last examined Terri three years ago (he thinks), and he's in complete agreement with her parents that she is "responsive" to family (of course). Oh, he also seems to claim that every neurologist who disagrees with the Schindlers is a "pro-euthanasia" doctor.
The insanity of it all is stunning. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Timgraysr
New Member
USA
21 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2005 : 17:12:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
If you are asking if pulling a feeding tube from a brain dead loved one and letting them go is an act of compassion as I see it. Yes.
hahahahahahahaha!
Tim, you lie. You have stated a couple times that removing the tube from Mrs Schiavo is wrong.
But I think I know the source of your problems. You listen to Rush and watch Hannity, AND you accept them as a credible source of news. A fatal mistake on your part. Those two are nothing more than the loudest pieces of the republican spin machine.
WHile most of the actual words they speak are true, the are expert lairs through the use of distorted context and partial truth. They exist ONLY to spread the propaganda that you have so obviously bought into.
Click this link for an example.
quote:
Enough so that even though I confess I may be wrong, on the slimest chance I cannot condone possibly torturing and innocent woman to dearh.
Again, then where is your outrage about Sun Hudson? Where is your outrage about the hundreds of people executed each year in this country (Most of whom have spent FAR LESS time in the court system than Terri Schiavo) who might not be guilty? DNA evidence has totally exonerated many death row inmates recently, shouldn't we then be reviewing EVERY death row case before we execute another person? There is, afterall, more than a SLIM chance that some of those people will be brutally electrocuted, gassed, or injected.... for crimes they did not commit. In fact, it's almost a 100% guarantee that atleast one of them is innocent, and a very high chance that there are many innocent people about to be wrongfully killed.
quote:
Where is the bias from the nurses that say she was responsive.
There was only one such person, just ONE. Her name is Carla Sauer Iyer. Her accusations were found to be totally without merit by a judge, a conservative, christian, republican judge at that. The only place she could obtain any airtime was FOX, their website had a video up a while back, can't find it now... but here is some of the transcript:
Scroll down just over half way and you'll see the nurse's name in bold http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151140,00.html
I have doubts that this woman is still a nurse, as a search of the current list of liscensed nurses in FL turns zero results for her name. This is the woman who made the claim that the nursing home would alter her documentation, that Mr Schiavo said, out loud, "is the bitch dead yet?", and who apparently went to the police with some serious accusations.
In fact, you can read all of her accusations right here: http://www.terrisfight.org/documents/CIyerAffidavit090203.htm
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An MRI or a PET would have awnsered some of the questions but Michael refused to have them done. Probably because he would have had to release the money for it out of the trust he shares with Terri from a medical malpractice.
Sentence one, yes. A PET or MRI would have added to the weight of clinical evidence. Sentence two, STOP letting Rush fill your head, THINK for yourself man. Mr Schiavo doesn't control the trust fund. He already had his share of the malpractice money. The $700k that was for Terri's care, is ONLY for her care. He doesn't get any of that cash. And, as pointed out, her care has depleted that fund to almost nothing at this point.
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On record, the first five years the Hospice acted on Michaels first statement of what his wife would want. He said he had no idea.
What "record" would that be? Why don't you provide us a link to that record? Also, to set the (sorry) record straight, Terri has only been in the care of Hospice for a couple of years.
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Something is up.
Yeah, something is up allright. It's called the neocons are motivating you, and people like you, who refuse to examine reality for yourself, to get out and vote in the 2006 elections. The Schiavo case is, per the republican congress, a "great political issue". One that will motivate the "right to life" if it is spun by the pundits enough. Politically, it's a great strategy. It makes people like yourself vote solidly against your own best interest (and that of your children) because you are convinced you are voting for some moral cause.
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I am angry about it. I am also angry that so many want to just "Let it Be".
If it were your wife, and you were convinced that she would never recover, would remain in a PVS until death, and you are convinced that it would not be your wife's wish to be artificially maintained via the various tubes.... and Rush, Hannity, Randal Terry, Tom DeLay, the US Congress, and an angry mob of religious zealots decided that you were trying to murder your wife.... what would your response be?
Dude, I knew you were rude. I didn't know yoou were stupid though. If a person states something that they believe to be true, it is not a lie. It is an error. That covers the rude. Now in the reverse, if it were your wife would you started dating after a year and a half? Probably if you either did't care or were convinced she was already dead. If that's the case why not discontinue the life support then. I love my wife. It if happened to her I would do what I could as soon as I could to aid her life or her suffering and not wait for another ten years. Come on man. Show me the love there. Even though for the first year she was reacting to thearpy he discontinued it. Ok Dude you followed the money trail didn't you? You know for about all Michaels funds in this matter. So tell me, if they would prove conclusivly that she was brain dead why not have the MRI. If it were your wife, daughter or mother, wouldn't you want to know? Awnsering your question. I do love my wife and I would want to know conclusivly. How can you stick up for this jerk. Do you believe OJ innocent? Where is the love that now nearing the time of her death he refuses to allow the Father and Mother to have the body for burial. He wants her cremated. Oh but he is so nice that he said he wanted an autopsy performed so everyone would be sure. Florida law dictates that there wil |
Tim Gray |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2005 : 18:09:04 [Permalink]
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Dude, I knew you were rude. I didn't know yoou were stupid though. If a person states something that they believe to be true, it is not a lie. It is an error. That covers the rude. Now in the reverse, if it were your wife would you started dating after a year and a half? Probably if you either did't care or were convinced she was already dead. If that's the case why not discontinue the life support then. I love my wife. It if happened to her I would do what I could as soon as I could to aid her life or her suffering and not wait for another ten years. Come on man. Show me the love there. Even though for the first year she was reacting to thearpy he discontinued it. Ok Dude you followed the money trail didn't you? You know for about all Michaels funds in this matter. So tell me, if they would prove conclusivly that she was brain dead why not have the MRI. If it were your wife, daughter or mother, wouldn't you want to know? Awnsering your question. I do love my wife and I would want to know conclusivly. How can you stick up for this jerk. Do you believe OJ innocent? Where is the love that now nearing the time of her death he refuses to allow the Father and Mother to have the body for burial. He wants her cremated. Oh but he is so nice that he said he wanted an autopsy performed so everyone would be sure. Florida law dictates that there will be an autopsy. Yes I listen to Rush and I listen to Hennity and if you could stand the conviction that the truth yealds you would too. The very first and continued voice of CNN and CBS described her as a brain dead girl. If that was all I listened I may believe as you. As you can tell, I listened to both. You might want to try it. Michael Schiavo is the epitimy of all that is evil in this world. The opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference. To summerise, everyone might believe in him but as for me, I remain skepticle.
References and documentation, please.
Tim, you have come in here making all sorts of claims with virtually nothing beyond belief to back it all up. Are we to take no more than your word? Sorry bro, but it don't work that-a-way; not here. Here, we insist upon reliable evidence of any and all claims, and if it's just conjecture, we say so. This holds for Dude, Dave, B'gal, I, and everyone else here. Thus, until you can come up with something besides the blitherings of Limbaugh and the likes thereof (who also prefer fantasy to reference), you will not be taken seriously.
We deal in reality, Tim, and the documentation shown thus far refutes your claims. You got to do better than this...
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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