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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 03/31/2005 : 07:49:37 [Permalink]
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Nothing on the news websites yet, but apparently Mr Schiavo has had the Schindler family removed from the Hospice.
They have their pet monk out making a press conference to complain about it.
All I can say is... are they actually suprised at this? After the extreme accusations made by the Schindler family this last week or two about the motives and character of Mr Schiavo?
They are lucky he has allowed them to visit as often as they have. If I were in his place, the Schindlers wouldn't be allowed within 100 yards, and I'd be seeking legal recourse against every one of them who slandered me in the media with accusations of abuse and murder plots.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 08:17:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Timgraysr
Dude, I knew you were rude. I didn't know yoou were stupid though.
ad hominem. Invalid.
quote:
If a person states something that they believe to be true, it is not a lie. It is an error.
When sourced credible evidence appears that you have access to and you still hold your position, it is no longer an error.
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That covers the rude. Now in the reverse, if it were your wife would you started dating after a year and a half? Probably if you either did't care or were convinced she was already dead. If that's the case why not discontinue the life support then. I love my wife. It if happened to her I would do what I could as soon as I could to aid her life or her suffering and not wait for another ten years. Come on man. Show me the love there.
Some things you left out. Michael Schiavo tried every therapy and treatment he could in the first 8 years. He thought she could be treated, but he finally accepted the opinion of the doctors entrusted with his wife's care. When he finally accepted it, he then started the process to withdraw life saving treatment. His wife's parents objected and the court cases began. Your strawman arguement assumes no interference from your wife's parents.
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Even though for the first year she was reacting to thearpy he discontinued it.
Not true, per court documents. Got proof of this?
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Ok Dude you followed the money trail didn't you? You know for about all Michaels funds in this matter. So tell me, if they would prove conclusivly that she was brain dead why not have the MRI.
I keep reading about a treatment he had done for her which inserted platinum rods in her head. As an MRI is one hell of a big freaking magnet, this would be bad.
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If it were your wife, daughter or mother, wouldn't you want to know?
A CT scan shows 40% of her brain is now liquid. This isn't definative proof?
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Awnsering your question. I do love my wife and I would want to know conclusivly. How can you stick up for this jerk.
He has accepted the vast majority of medical opinion. See above answer.
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Do you believe OJ innocent?
Red Herring.
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Where is the love that now nearing the time of her death he refuses to allow the Father and Mother to have the body for burial.
Why do you and people like you insist that the parents have some rights to dictate to a spouse how to conduct final preperations? By what right does the parents claim superior claim over the spouse?
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He wants her cremated. Oh but he is so nice that he said he wanted an autopsy performed so everyone would be sure. Florida law dictates that there will be an autopsy.
Ah, that's bullshit. Got a law citation?
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Yes I listen to Rush and I listen to Hennity and if you could stand the conviction that the truth yealds you would too.
Truth? Limbaugh has made a career out of taking one fact and surrounding it with commentary blurred so that you can't tell the difference. Hannity and Scarborough both work from the absolute assumption that Schiavo is misdiagnosed and accept as fact assertations without evidence. Oftentimes, in direct conflict with a perponderance of evidence.
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The very first and continued voice of CNN and CBS described her as a brain dead girl. If that was all I listened I may believe as you. As you can tell, I listened to both. You might want to try it.
We have. We also searched out stories which printed court documents and medical record excerpts. The commentary you take as more the truth is not supported by these documents.
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Michael Schiavo is the epitimy of all that is evil in this world. The opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference. To summerise, everyone might believe in him but as for me, I remain skepticle.
That's the best you got? Character assassination and belief without evidence? You need to try better. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 08:56:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
I keep reading about a treatment he had done for her which inserted platinum rods in her head. As an MRI is one hell of a big freaking magnet, this would be bad.
Is platinum magnetic? I am aware that titanium medical devices pose no problems for MRI. Neither do amalgam dental fillings, nor the non-magnetic iron within a person's blood.
Of course, the idea that a CAT scan or MRI could prove conclusively that Terri's consciousness existed (or did not) is patently ridiculous. Such tests could only do so if precisely zero brain cells were present, but we know from previous CAT scans (as late as 2002) that such was not the case. The "pro-life" doctors would assert that consciousness could exist in whatever showed up on an MRI, and the test would result in no net difference from the current ideological stand-off.
And I'd like to predict that very soon now, we will hear assertions that the people who perform and record the autopsy have been bought off by Michael Schiavo. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 09:01:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
CNN (and the Schindler's "pet monk") just reported that Terri has just died.
My sincere condolences to all of her family, that they all had to go through this.
It's over then. Or is it just beginning...?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 09:06:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
He wants her cremated. Oh but he is so nice that he said he wanted an autopsy performed so everyone would be sure. Florida law dictates that there will be an autopsy.
FL law dictates no such thing. You are pathetic. Even when the autopsy results conclude that there is ZERO evidence of any type of abuse, you will prob still claim there was... just that 15 years is to long a time for an autopsy to be able to find any evidence of it.
quote:
And I'd like to predict that very soon now, we will hear assertions that the people who perform and record the autopsy have been bought off by Michael Schiavo.
I concur. The autopsy report will provide more evidence for the diagnosis of PVS. The "right to life" side of the argument will ignore it, get some quack to disagree with the medical examiner, and we'll keep hearing about this nonsense.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 09:14:42 [Permalink]
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from My Way news:
quote:
PINELLAS PARK, Fla. (AP) - Terri Schiavo, the severely brain-damaged woman whose 15 years connected to a feeding tube sparked an epic legal battle that went all the way to the White House and Congress, died Thursday, 13 days after the tube was removed. She was 41.
Schiavo died at the Pinellas Park hospice where she lay for years while her husband and her parents fought over her fate in the nation's most bitter - and most heavily litigated - right-to-die dispute.
The feud between the parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, and their son-in-law continued even after her death: Brother Paul O'Donnell, an adviser to the Schindlers, said they and their two other children "were denied access at the moment of her death. They've been requesting, as you know, for the last hour to try to be in there and they were denied access by Michael Schiavo. They are in there now, praying at her bedside."
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 09:52:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
I keep reading about a treatment he had done for her which inserted platinum rods in her head. As an MRI is one hell of a big freaking magnet, this would be bad.
Is platinum magnetic? I am aware that titanium medical devices pose no problems for MRI. Neither do amalgam dental fillings, nor the non-magnetic iron within a person's blood.
Of course, the idea that a CAT scan or MRI could prove conclusively that Terri's consciousness existed (or did not) is patently ridiculous. Such tests could only do so if precisely zero brain cells were present, but we know from previous CAT scans (as late as 2002) that such was not the case. The "pro-life" doctors would assert that consciousness could exist in whatever showed up on an MRI, and the test would result in no net difference from the current ideological stand-off.
And I'd like to predict that very soon now, we will hear assertions that the people who perform and record the autopsy have been bought off by Michael Schiavo.
Platinum is sometimes weakly magnetic.
http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/elements/platinum/platinum.htm
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 10:10:19 [Permalink]
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One can only hope that the lying sacks of shit that made this case a controversy where there shouldn't have been one, for ratings, political capital and prime time exposure, will now shut the fuck up.
I know, I know. Too much to hope for…
The talk show rating whores, like Rush, will scream murder. Randall Terry will try to parlay his latest and successful attempt at media exposure into another run at being a big shot again.The politicians will be busy with damage control and spin. And a few of the nut jobs who fell for all of the crap may well seek some sort of vigilantly retaliation.
I would like to believe that I am being unduly pessimistic. It would not bother me if it turns out that I am wrong about any or all of the above. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 10:32:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
CNN (and the Schindler's "pet monk") just reported that Terri has just died.
Actually she died 15 years ago. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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nukular
New Member
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 10:41:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Is platinum magnetic? I am aware that titanium medical devices pose no problems for MRI. Neither do amalgam dental fillings, nor the non-magnetic iron within a person's blood.
The more appropriate question is what would the induced current be in the platinum. Recall currents inside magnetic fields experience a force. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 12:02:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
He wants her cremated. Oh but he is so nice that he said he wanted an autopsy performed so everyone would be sure. Florida law dictates that there will be an autopsy.
FL law dictates no such thing. You are pathetic. Even when the autopsy results conclude that there is ZERO evidence of any type of abuse, you will prob still claim there was... just that 15 years is to long a time for an autopsy to be able to find any evidence of it.
This law was reported by Terri's sister. It will be interesting if that is also a lie. Are you sure?
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 12:29:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
quote:
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
He wants her cremated. Oh but he is so nice that he said he wanted an autopsy performed so everyone would be sure. Florida law dictates that there will be an autopsy.
FL law dictates no such thing. You are pathetic. Even when the autopsy results conclude that there is ZERO evidence of any type of abuse, you will prob still claim there was... just that 15 years is to long a time for an autopsy to be able to find any evidence of it.
This law was reported by Terri's sister. It will be interesting if that is also a lie. Are you sure?
Florida law requires an autopsy in some cases. None of them relate to the Terri Schiavo case.
They are for:
1) When there is a question of the involvement of a criminal act (936.003)
2) When an autopsy is required to determine cause of death (406.53)
3) When the identy of the individual is in question (872.04)
Numbers in brackets refer to Florida Statutes. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 12:52:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by astropin
Actually she died 15 years ago.
Even people who truly are brain dead aren't dead until the rest of their body quits working. There's no need to redefine medical terms in this case (or any other, for that matter).quote:
Originally posted by nukular
The more appropriate question is what would the induced current be in the platinum.
Actually, the more appropriate question, really, is were platinum rods implanted in Terri's head at all? And then, what would be "conclusive" about an MRI on Terri in the first place. And CNN has quoted Schindler family members as saying that it's not going to matter what an autopsy shows, they know Terri was there and conscious. So an MRI would have accomplished precisely nothing, not for the family, thus not for the pundits, and therefore not for the likes of Timgraysr (who strangely believes otherwise).quote:
Recall currents inside magnetic fields experience a force.
But back to this question: yes, which is why people can do this. Titanium, with a resistance of 40x10-8Ohm m, is quite a bit less amenable to such things than platinum (10.6x10-8 Ohm m), but is it enough to make the difference between ripping through a person's tissues and not doing so when affected by an MRI? Of course, many titanium parts are anchored in bone... |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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trishran
Skeptic Friend
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 13:06:14 [Permalink]
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HI, folks, just saw the entirety of George Felos' speech outside the hospice. I found it very moving. Interestingly, Mr Schiavo, who was depicted as having "moved on" because of his subsequent relationship and children, spent the last two weeks at the hospice, but would vacate Terri's room at a moment's notice, any time members of the Schindler family wanted to visit.
As for the "moving on" business - in previous centuries, kings would have wives and mistresses, and having a mistress didn't make them any less married. People in this century can have affairs, but still must go through a divorce if they want the marriage to end. Felos said that Mr Schiavo stayed married to Terri because he wanted to stand up for what she would have wanted. [Maybe one of our problems as a society is that people can love more than one person and we don't want to admit that]
The media, and the Schindler family have been portraying the dispute as "Schindlers/"culture of life" v. Michael's interests. But Michael wasn't asked in court what he wanted, he was asked what Terri would have wanted.
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