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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 03/29/2005 : 10:12:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
Hyperbaric therapy is used for two things...
Hammerfahr does appear to be on the quackish side of things.
Let me be clear on one thing, I use the word "quack" in the sense defined by the US Congress: the promotion or use of untested or disproven medical therapies.
The fact that hyperbaric therapy has valid and demonstrated uses in no way makes Hammesfahr's claims not pure-and-simple quackery.
In other words: it is people who are quacks, not the therapies themselves. The suggestion, for example, that antibiotics could cure schizophrenia is quackery, no matter how many benefits antibiotics actually bestow upon mankind. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2005 : 10:14:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
But his hyperbaric quackery disqualifies him of being an unbiased expert, even if he weren't on the Schindler's payroll.
Hyperbaric therapy is used for two things. First, to treat pressure sickness.
Second, to treat wounds that are slow to heal. Usually diabetic skin ulcers or surgical wounds in diabetic patients.
The idea behind it is that the increased partial pressure of oxygen will increase the ability of tissues to heal. But only tissues that CAN heal in the first place. Brain tissue, once destroyed, does not fall into this category.
Hammerfahr does appear to be on the quackish side of things. This is the same jackass who is getting wrongly credited on FOX as being a Nobel Prize nominee.
Can I ask how it is that Rather gets fired over failing to fact check, and FOX gets cheered on for deliberately lying?
Serious burns that are going necrotic due to poor circulation, as well. That was my second of three rides in one of the miserable bastards. They take you down about an atmosphere, and put you on oxygen. I cannot see how something like this would help Terri at all. The quack ducks under fancy words, methinks.
I have no answer for the other questions -- one suspects that the fix in. I think that it is only a matter of time before Fox begins to pay for their ill service. As history has shown, nothing remains in stasis for very long.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2005 : 10:19:45 [Permalink]
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Nice, Siberia. It seems there's no shortage of demonizing on deviantART, either.
But yuck: over 2,000 responses to that poll, to be read 10 at a time?!? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2005 : 10:29:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Nice, Siberia. It seems there's no shortage of demonizing on deviantART, either.
But yuck: over 2,000 responses to that poll, to be read 10 at a time?!?
Yeah, I know. It's annoying when you get a shitload of comments.
Some of those replies are quite intelligent, though, and the audience it's diverse (both age-wise and geographically-wise).
Not all is lost, though:
quote:
Posted by sots at deviantART.com
I absolutely agree. When I saw this ALL OVER 11 out of 18 PAGES of the local (pittsburgh) news, I was like WTF?! When I read what it was all actually about, the over-blown stupidy that encapsulates this entire situation floored me. Even if I thought she SHOULD be kept "alive" to satisfy some fanatical idea of "sin" as people removing your feeding tube, which I do not, I could never justify the nature of this countrys stupid lemming-like reaction.
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"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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| Edited by - Siberia on 03/29/2005 10:31:43 |
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pfretzschner
Skeptic Friend
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2005 : 10:43:21 [Permalink]
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The most interesting thing about this whole sad mess is how thoroughly
the Republicans have fucked up. Not only do they have 60-70% or so of the public mad at them for getting involved in the first place, they have the Randall Terry-insane-batshit-nutcase contingent FURIOUS for not sending the Marines to storm the hospice. Damn, I hope this sticks to the bastards. |
| Edited by - pfretzschner on 03/29/2005 10:44:12 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2005 : 11:28:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
(CNN reports that Jesse Jackson has now become yet another politician trying to butt in on private business.)
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
b) Hammerfahr who believes that by increasing the blood flow to dead tissue, you'll get something other than dead tissue. He also has not examined Terri or her medical records. At least he wants to put her in a hyperbaric chamber and pump her full of drugs.
Hammesfahr was one of two doctors hired by Terri's parents due to a court order for five doctors (preferrably neurologists) to review Terri's case. (Had I been the judge, I would have ordered neurologists or other brain experts, and this guy would have been voir dired out of my courtroom, but I wasn't.) Hammesfahr spent a total of ten hours with Terri over two days, and did examine her medical records. But his hyperbaric quackery disqualifies him of being an unbiased expert, even if he weren't on the Schindler's payroll.
Dammit, twice in two days. I gotta pay more attention to stories.
The whole think screamed quack to me when he started talking about hyperbaric chambers and drugs. My first impulse was to write this guy and tell him to get bent. (pun intended)
The only use I knew of for hyperbaric chambers was for decompression sickness. (Yes, I'm a PADI certified open water diver, why do you ask?)
I knew that the Cheshire guy (Mayo clinic doctor) had not examined Schiavo or her medical records and applied that to the Quack Hammesfahr. It seemed incongruent to medical opinion that a neurologist faced with a pool of liquid where a cerebral cortex used to be would claim that he could treat her successfully.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2005 : 11:29:51 [Permalink]
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| Sorry, they voted in the anti-viscosity neo-teflon coating last year, snuck it in a bill called 'The Save the Babies Bill' and no onw would dare vote againsts a bill titled such. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2005 : 12:03:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
It seemed incongruent to medical opinion that a neurologist faced with a pool of liquid where a cerebral cortex used to be would claim that he could treat her successfully.
Hence, the quackery of this charlatan is revealed.
Combined with his alleged claim of a Nobel nomination.....
Think I am filing a complaint with the FL board of medicine over false credentials.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2005 : 12:49:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
It seemed incongruent to medical opinion that a neurologist faced with a pool of liquid where a cerebral cortex used to be would claim that he could treat her successfully.
Hence, the quackery of this charlatan is revealed.
Combined with his alleged claim of a Nobel nomination.....
Think I am filing a complaint with the FL board of medicine over false credentiaas
Go for it!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2005 : 15:52:07 [Permalink]
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Perhaps this has been brought up already, but has anyone seen this story on the evil Tom Delay's own Schaivo-like personal tragedy? Of course, since he's a hypocritical political whore, he did the opposite of his current position:quote:
The man in a coma, kept alive by intravenous lines and oxygen equipment, was DeLay's father, Charles Ray DeLay . . . When his father's kidneys failed, the DeLay family decided against connecting him to a dialysis machine. "Extraordinary measures to prolong life were not initiated," said his medical report, citing "agreement with the family's wishes." His bedside chart carried the instruction: "Do not resuscitate."
There are some other nice ironic twists in the story that make it worth reading. But the conclusion is nice:quote:
Like her son, [Maxine DeLay] believed there might be hope for Terri Schiavo's recovery. That's what made her family's experience different, she said. Charles had no hope.
"There was no chance he was ever coming back," she said.
So somehow they were sure that he wasn't going to recover but, despite what doctors say and despite that fact that they're way removed from the Shaivo story, they thought Terri might recover. Amazing!
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Timgraysr
New Member
USA
21 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2005 : 17:27:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Renae
Tim, Renae is a name I use for security reasons. My real name is sufficiently unusual, and my ISP is local...and this is the 'net. Call me paranoid (or maybe just smart.)
I'll ask you again: can you consider, just for a moment, that compassion exists in the views that disagree with yours? Because as misguided as I think the "feed Terri" brigade is, I think some of the elements of their arguments have merit.
The true bad guys here are the politicians giving false hope to grieving parents, not those who believe in death with dignity.
I swear we'd solve 50% of the world's problems if people minded their own damn business.
Hello Renae. If you are asking if pulling a feeding tube from a brain dead loved one and letting them go is an act of compassion as I see it. Yes. If you're asking if I believe I may be wrong, then again yes. I do not mind my own business though. Especially when I know todays events will shape the world my children will have to live in tomorrow. I have 5 so, I consider it a vested interest. So, I do more than just read the paper. I am a conservitive as you probably gathered. I read the paper but, I also listen to political forums. I have learned a lot about Terri's " Life " after the event. Enough so that even though I confess I may be wrong, on the slimest chance I cannot condone possibly torturing and innocent woman to dearh. Research and tell me what can be learned about incognitive ability and brain dammage from a dead brain in an autopsy. I think I am not the only one that knows this. It is way to suspicious. Where is the bias from the nurses that say she was responsive. Today I heard part of the early medical treatments she was getting. Did you know she was walking with bar assist for a while. An MRI or a PET would have awnsered some of the questions but Michael refused to have them done. Probably because he would have had to release the money for it out of the trust he shares with Terri from a medical malpractice. On record, the first five years the Hospice acted on Michaels first statement of what his wife would want. He said he had no idea. Something is up. I am angry about it. I am also angry that so many want to just "Let it Be". I would ask you to listed to Rush or Hennity and Combs but, if you are a liberal (or not a conservitive, however you say it without offending) you probanly will not. However, Jessie Jackson is now involved maby some will trust what he says. I know I sure am glad that he stepped in. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2005 : 18:31:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Timgraysr
Probably because he would have had to release the money for it out of the trust he shares with Terri from a medical malpractice.
You do know that Michael doesn't have control over that trust, and that out of over $700,000 in it at the beginning, it is now down to at most $50,000, right?quote:
I am angry about it. I am also angry that so many want to just "Let it Be".
Yeah, it's a real frigging shame that so many people want to let Florida govern itself, ain't it?quote:
However, Jessie Jackson is now involved maby some will trust what he says.
The only trust which needs to be granted is that we trust that the citizens of Florida are capable of governing themselves. Jackson is neither a medical expert, nor an expert in bioethics or end-of-life issues, so we have no reason to "trust" anything he might say regarding this.quote:
I know I sure am glad that he stepped in.
Of course you are, as he played right into the conservatives' hands. He's a patsy for the Republicans who now, in their partisan fury, can say "look at Jesse, this isn't a partisan issue!" But the rank hypocrisy of George W. Bush, Tom Delay and every other self-labeled "conservative" (including yourself, Tim) who couldn't keep the government's hands out of private business will fester and ooze around them with noxious fumes regardless of however sweet Jackson might smell. Jackson's presence is like a little pine-tree deodorizer hung out over a sewage treatment settling pond. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2005 : 18:48:47 [Permalink]
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Limbaugh, Hannity and Combs? Oy veh!
Yeah, I've listened to them, and fact checked them as well. I discovered long ago that these are entertainers, not journalists, and they tailor their shows to their audience. As that audience seems to be those species of conservative that will allow someone else to do their thinking, they put across their own, political agenda with little regard for the truth.
As I prefer fact to fatious fiction, I don't bother with them any more.
Hey Tim, if you get a chance to talk to Rush, tell him that I've got a virtually unlimited, free OxyCodone prescription (I really do), and listen to him sing the junkie snivel.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2005 : 18:59:52 [Permalink]
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Tim, thanks for responding and seeing the good in the other side. The demonization-of-the-opposition stuff (and both sides do it, me included) gets old, doesn't it?
The trouble with inferfering in someone else's business--and that is exactly what you are doing to Terri and her husband's business, and what Congress and Bush and the wailers outside the hospice are doing--is that you may or may not have your facts right. You're entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts. Information, as I'm sure we've all experienced, has a funny way of becoming less accurate as it's passed along and becomes secondhand, thirdhand, tenth-hand, etc. Not all sources of information are created equal, so they should be given varying levels of credibility.
You don't know if Michael Schiavo is behaving honorably; neither do I. Since you're not a neurosurgeon who's examined Terri nor the radiologist who read her CT scan, you don't know the state of her brain and neither do I. I trust what objective physicians and neurologists have said, and almost unanimously, they deem her a permanent vegetative state and see little or no brain activity in the front of her brain.
This drama is played out hundreds of times a day all over America. Loved ones and caregivers are called upon to make life-or-death decisions every day, and they do it without Jeb Bush, an act of Congress, a media circus, and busybodies waving their Bibles. In most cases, they make the best decision they can at the time, and as William Raspberry said today, it's a decision that *should* be difficult and ambiguous.
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