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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
 Posted - 04/07/2005 : 14:35:51
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This excerpt is straight from Air America's website. I couldn't resist sharing it.
40,000 US Troops Not Citizensquote:
This includes the Guard and Reserve.
More than 20,000 military personnel have become U.S. citizens since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, according to the Pentagon.
Another 5,000 have applications pending for citizenship, with that process being expedited for military members, shortening the wait from about nine months to 60 days.
There are still about 30,000 active duty and 11,000 Guard and Reserve personnel in the military who are not U.S. citizens, according to Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel David Chu. He testified Tuesday before the Senate Armed Services Committee on personnel issues facing the military.
For better or worse, there was once another great army that had a similar makeup.
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Edited by - beskeptigal on 04/07/2005 14:36:18
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2005 : 15:10:28 [Permalink]
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Actually, it's not a fair comparison.
The Roman army, near the end, was almost entirely composed of foreign troops.
They also had a MUCH harder time earning citizenship as a Roman. An enlistment in the legions was a serious life commitment.
40,000 is not a significant % of our military.
And it's pretty easy to earn US citizenship, especially after serving out a 4 year term.
Also... we don't take people from enemy states. Most of those non-citizens are likely from our "protectorates" like Peurto Rico and the islands in the pacific that I can't think of the name of.... that we nuked to test the big bombs out.
The US military has always had some non-citizens.
So... what, I wonder, is the point of pointing out that there are non-citizens in the military? What is the issue here?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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mike alexander
New Member
11 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2005 : 14:03:55 [Permalink]
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Uh, Puerto Ricans are US citizens, and have been for a long time..
(dumdumdum)
Check. Since 1917. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2005 : 14:23:39 [Permalink]
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When I served (late '50s to late 60's), I knew quite a few Mexican and Canadian nationals. I also recall a couple from the Mid-eaet, don't recall exactly where. Non-citizens weren't all that uncommon.
Most memorable: a Mexican national named O'Ruark, if I've spelled that right. His english was heavily accented, and naturally, we called him, "Poncho."
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2005 : 16:27:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Uh, Puerto Ricans are US citizens, and have been for a long time..
(dumdumdum)
Check. Since 1917.
Yeah. My bad.
But my question still remains. What matter if a small % of our military are non citizens? What is the issue here?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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sweetmiracle
Skeptic Friend
USA
74 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2005 : 17:27:01 [Permalink]
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There are 60,000 immigrants in the U.S. military, which represent two percent of the total service personnel on active duty. About half are noncitizens, with 15,880 in the Navy; of those, 5,046 are from the Philippines. More than 6,000 Marines are noncitizens, with the largest group, 1,452, from Mexico. [<p>] In 2004, President Bush signed an order allowing all active-duty immigrants serving as of Sept. 11, 2001, to apply for U.S. citizenship without waiting the usual three years, and without having to apply within the U.S.. Now, immigrants serving in the army, navy, marine corps, air force, coast guard, parts of the national guard and Selected Reserve of the Ready Reserve may be eligible to apply for citizenship if they can 1) Demonstrate good moral character/have no criminal record, 2) can speak English, 3) can demonstrate knowledge of U.S. government and history, and take an oath of allegiance to the U.S. Constitution. The applicant must also have served honorably during one year of conflict, have a green card, or have been present in the U.S. at time of enlistment. The application must be filed within six months of discharge.
A flood of inquiries from Mexicans and other foreigners prompted the military to state that it will only accept U.S. legal residents and citizens at this time. Beyond the societal benefits of citizenship, non-citizens in the military cannot become officers, and must leave the military after eight years of service.
http://immigration.about.com/od/uscitizenshiprequirements/i/MilitCitizenIss.htm
So, many are joining in order to become US citizens faster.... |
Remarkable claims require remarkable proof.
-Carl Sagan |
| Edited by - sweetmiracle on 04/08/2005 17:27:59 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2005 : 01:36:49 [Permalink]
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I think the comparision was tongue in cheek not a prediction Rome the US was falling now. Sorry if it was misunderstood to be a serious comment. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2005 : 11:03:15 [Permalink]
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| USA is falling. Because the majority of it's citizen has forgotten how and why it was founded in the first place, and letting idiots take control. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2005 : 11:12:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
USA is falling. Because the majority of it's citizen has forgotten how and why it was founded in the first place, and letting idiots take control.
Agree.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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leoofno
Skeptic Friend
USA
346 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2005 : 11:36:45 [Permalink]
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Going from memory here...
One of the reasons that Rome fell was that the vast majority of the empire, which was not of the original Roman stock, did not really know what "Roman" was. There was no formal "Romanization" of new citizens, no classes or training in Roman history, no real creation of a culture of shared values. The empire took in many "barbarians" who really wanted to benefit from what the empire had to offer, but had their own system of values, and even laws (the Roman authorities eventually allowed newly absorbed peoples to be governed by their own laws, not Roman ones).
The Roman Empire lost itself when its citizens lost the original core set of values of what it ment to be Roman. Food for thought.
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"If you're not terrified, you're not paying attention." Eric Alterman
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