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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 09/30/2001 : 14:09:34
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Bill Maher is being unfairly condemned for comments he made on Politically Incorrect. Sponsors Sears and FedEx pulled their advertising, and ABC may cancel the show. And the worst part? He didn't even say the things they claim he did (see <A HREF="http://www.millionflagmarch.com/bill/moreinfo.htm" target="_blank">full story</A>, including continued possibility of show being cancelled). Our nation is in the midst of a crisis, and we must stand together. But we cannot trash the First Amendment in the process, and we certainly cannot allow a small, shrill group to exploit this crisis to destroy the reputation of a fellow citizen. There are too many real enemies out there -- we must not permit opportunists to create false ones.
Excerpt from the <A HREF="http://www.millionflagmarch.com/bill/" target="_blank">Support Bill Maher</A> section of the Million Flag March website.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
 Posted - 09/30/2001 : 15:33:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
But we cannot trash the First Amendment
In another thread about this, I mentioned how I was always surprised that people erroneosly claimed that things like this have anything to do with the First Amendment.
You agreed with me.
What's the deal?
This has nothing to do with freedom of speech. Bill Maher has no right to any company's advertising dollars.
It's fine to be upset when someone is accused of something they didn't do or say, but don't try to inflame the issue by trying to make it into something it's not.
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And if rain brings winds of change
let it rain on us forever.
I have no doubt from what I've seen
that I have never wanted more.
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2001 : 17:28:42 [Permalink]
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I agree that it's completely fair for companies to pull their advertising. It's also fair for fans to sign a petition.
I don't always agree with Bill Maher but these companies are not looking at the issue closely enough. I watch Politically Incorrect religiously and know that Bill Maher has indeed supported the military throughout all his shows. To have people purpously distort what he said is, in my opinion, wrong.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2001 : 18:00:01 [Permalink]
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In the context of the present situation, one can say that it is not unconstitutional to pull advertising. However, the corporate media only allows for a narrow version of reality, so the cards are stacked to begin with. It all seems free, and in that narrow context, it meets with First Amendment standards. However, it doesn't allow for a free and open discussion of all views.
quote:
quote:
But we cannot trash the First Amendment
In another thread about this, I mentioned how I was always surprised that people erroneosly claimed that things like this have anything to do with the First Amendment.
You agreed with me.
What's the deal?
This has nothing to do with freedom of speech. Bill Maher has no right to any company's advertising dollars.
It's fine to be upset when someone is accused of something they didn't do or say, but don't try to inflame the issue by trying to make it into something it's not.
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And if rain brings winds of change
let it rain on us forever.
I have no doubt from what I've seen
that I have never wanted more.
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2001 : 18:31:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
However, it doesn't allow for a free and open discussion of all views.
You and anyone else can have a free and open discussion of all views on any street corner, in your house, in a public park, etc. to your heart's content.
If you want to have free and open discussions on TV, buy yourself a part of the spectrum, or get a job with Public Television. You do not and never had a right to free and open discussion on television (I believe there was a disastrous and short-lived "fair access clause" imposed on radio stations, however. It was ridiculous nonsense). They are privately owned stations, under no obligation to air any views but of their own choosing.
@tomic can choose to delete any and all posts that he doesn't like. This will not be an "assault on free speech".
This is not a free speech issue. That's my only point.
Whether or not Bill Maher is getting a bum rap, that's another matter, and not what I'm commenting about.
[I think Bill Maher is an idiot, who occasionally says things I agree with. While I would never support an abridgement of his right of free speech (which can only be abridged by the government), having him off the air would probably be more beneficial than not. He is no friend to skeptics, and is quite the believer in ghosts and other nonsense. When this kind of pap is presented while telling jokes, the general public is ten times as likely to start believing it...]
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And if rain brings winds of change
let it rain on us forever.
I have no doubt from what I've seen
that I have never wanted more.
Edited by - tokyodreamer on 09/30/2001 18:34:42 |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2001 : 18:45:33 [Permalink]
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I seldom listen to Bill Maher. He, himself, can be exceedingly funny (at times, of course), but the time for his program is late, and losing sleep is not good for anybody. Then again, I do not care very much for most of his guests. However, I do not care much for public taste. Bill Maher's going will mean that I will get more sleep, because it takes a lot to keep me awake late at night.
I will miss Bill Maher. He was over the heads of everybody who has been criticizing him. That was his real crime!
Then again, according to (the late) H.L. Mencken, *Nobody ever lost money underestimating the taste [intelligence] of the American public.* [Two versions.]
ljbrs 
*Nothing is more damaging to a new truth than an old error.* Goethe |
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Espritch
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2001 : 19:35:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
If you want to have free and open discussions on TV, buy yourself a part of the spectrum, or get a job with Public Television. You do not and never had a right to free and open discussion on television (I believe there was a disastrous and short-lived "fair access clause" imposed on radio stations, however. It was ridiculous nonsense). They are privately owned stations, under no obligation to air any views but of their own choosing.
Not everyone can buy a part of the broadcast spectrum (even if they have enough money). It is a limited public resource which is sold to private broadcast companies by the government. Those who purchase this public property should and do have a responsibility to the public to insure that more views than just those they support are heard. Even if their advertisers don't approve.
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2001 : 20:29:54 [Permalink]
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Those who purchase this public property should and do have a responsibility to the public to insure that more views than just those they support are heard. Even if their advertisers don't approve.
Please provide reference to the law that says this. As far as I know, networks are under no legal obligation to provide air time to opposing views (they tried that with radio; it failed miserably).
(Of course, I'm not arguing that morally they shouldn't do this. But making it a law won't work, and as far as I know, no such law exists.)
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And if rain brings winds of change
let it rain on us forever.
I have no doubt from what I've seen
that I have never wanted more.
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2001 : 21:58:18 [Permalink]
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I just want to make it absolutely clear that I didn't start this post as a free speech discussion. I never once used the word free speech. I just happen to like the show and think that Bill Maher is geting a raw deal by companies that have paid for advertising and the people that have spread maliscious versions of what he said around.
I was just posting so that fans of the show could show their support.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2001 : 00:01:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
I just want to make it absolutely clear that I didn't start this post as a free speech discussion. I never once used the word free speech. I just happen to like the show and think that Bill Maher is geting a raw deal by companies that have paid for advertising and the people that have spread maliscious versions of what he said around.
I was just posting so that fans of the show could show their support.
@tomic
Hate to do this to you @, although I do watch the show I'm not a fan. It's more like watching a traffic accident and there's not much of anything better at that time of night. And I wouldn't miss it if it's gone I only have the TV on at that hour as more or less background noise.
A couple of people here brought up good points. True the government lets companies use the air waves BUT corporations or businesses don't have to sponsor shows for whatever reason they don't want to. If they think it's bad for their immage, that's their choice. You should write to them with your views. I don't shop at 7/11 because they stopped selling Playboy(trying to dictate our morals)-their choice/my choice.
If you want fans to show their support, get people to write or call the station 1st and find out where to write to the companies who didn't want to be conected to the show.
Good luck,
nlm
ps. just curious @, you are too intelligent to watch that idiot Bill Maher, I can't picture you laughing at his 'jokes'. Why? Why are you such a big fan?
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art. |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2001 : 00:27:37 [Permalink]
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That's fine Snake. Again I never once said that advertisers couldn't do what they want. Ditto for ABC/Disney. Everyone got that by now???? LOL
You don't like Bill even though he's a Libertarian? That's one of the things i don't like about him but what the hell.
The show is not just about Bill Maher you know Snake. he has some interesting guests from time to time. And at the hour of night that PI is on the selections aren't that great anyway. heh, like that's an excuse 
quote:
If you want fans to show their support, get people to write or call the station 1st and find out where to write to the companies who didn't want to be conected to the show.
Good luck,
I don't mean to sound testy but uhhh, that's why I started this thread. Sounding off that you don't like Bill's show is fine. Discussion is fine. I don't care. I just don't want to have to say the same thing over and over.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2001 : 06:02:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
I just want to make it absolutely clear that I didn't start this post as a free speech discussion.
Sorry if I hijacked your thread. I understand that your purpose was to let people know about the issue and to support Bill Maher if they choose. But you mentioned the First Amendment, and I just wanted to comment on that.
quote:
You don't like Bill even though he's a Libertarian? That's one of the things i don't like about him but what the hell.
Bill Maher is as much a Libertarian as you are a Republican.
He holds a few Libertarian ideas, but he espoused socialist/liberal ideas at least as much, if not more, than any so-called Libertarian ones.
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And if rain brings winds of change
let it rain on us forever.
I have no doubt from what I've seen
that I have never wanted more.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2001 : 06:21:22 [Permalink]
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The present structure does not allow for that free and open discussion. Part of the reason is that the airwaves are public, but are treated as giveaways by the government to corporations.
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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Mespo_man
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2001 : 09:00:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
I don't always agree with Bill Maher but these companies are not looking at the issue closely enough.
All kinds of irrational, knee-jerk reactionary people buy their products, however. So the companies are simply erring on the side of caution by also responding with a knee-jerk reaction. They really don't give a damn about Bill Maher personally, they give a damn about image and profits.
quote:
Those who purchase this public property should and do have a responsibility to the public to insure that more views than just those they support are heard. Even if their advertisers don't approve.
Uhh, no. Not really. Privately held corporations are under no legal obligations to provide opposing viewpoints.
quote:
The present structure does not allow for that free and open discussion. Part of the reason is that the airwaves are public, but are treated as giveaways by the government to corporations.
Don't lose sight of what "Politically Incorrect" is. It is ENTERTAINMENT. Bill Maher is not Tim Russert and Politically Incorrect is not Meet The Press. If the network bigwigs decide that Maher is expendible in such an emotionally charged atmosphere nationally then...them's are the breaks, kid.
You expect life to be fair? It ain't. That's why I keep my job resume up-to-date.
(:raig |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2001 : 09:13:08 [Permalink]
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Actually the mention of free speech was a quote I pasted from a website. I should have made it more obvious that it was a quote I guess. Sorry about that. They are definately wrong on it being a free speech issue.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2001 : 09:20:50 [Permalink]
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It's come to the point where it's all info-tainment. It makes no difference. The corporate media show a narrow view of the world and that's it.
Not to work towards what is fair as best we can is to give up. Then you won't need a resume'.
quote:
Don't lose sight of what "Politically Incorrect" is. It is ENTERTAINMENT. Bill Maher is not Tim Russert and Politically Incorrect is not Meet The Press. If the network bigwigs decide that Maher is expendible in such an emotionally charged atmosphere nationally then...them's are the breaks, kid.
You expect life to be fair? It ain't. That's why I keep my job resume up-to-date.
(:raig
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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