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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 06/22/2005 : 13:15:36
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As if these drones had nothing better to do:
quote:
WASHINGTON - The House on Wednesday approved a constitutional amendment that would give Congress the power to ban desecration of the American flag, a measure that for the first time stands a chance of passing the Senate as well.
By a 286-130 vote — eight more than needed — House members approved the amendment after a debate over whether such a ban would uphold or run afoul of the Constitution's free-speech protections.
Approval of two-thirds of the lawmakers present was required to send the bill on to the Senate, where activists on both sides say it stands the best chance of passage in years. If the amendment is approved in that chamber by a two-thirds vote, it would then move to the states for ratification.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 06/22/2005 : 13:23:06 [Permalink]
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| An NPR reporter this morning said that this comes up every couple of years. It always passes in the House, but has never passed in the Senate. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2005 : 13:42:11 [Permalink]
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Lets hope that it doesn't pass this time.
If it does, it will provoke me into doing something rash...
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2005 : 19:53:32 [Permalink]
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Notice also that they don't define "physical desecration". Its assumed to be burning. What about displaying the flag up-side-down? At sea that means "ship in distress". With protesters it implies "country in distress." What about the flag in advertising or in clothing? How about a red white & blue beach towel? Doesn't bother me but what will the law say if it passes.
And, in my opinion, once again Congress is fiddling around with trivia so as not to be bothered with the real national problems. |
Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2005 : 20:05:59 [Permalink]
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I think the plan is to pass legislation so vague and obviously unconstitutional that the courts will have no choice but to strike it down. Then instead of congress being ashamed of passing ridiculous, unenforcible laws, they will pin the blame on the liberal, unpatriotic, out-of-control judiciary.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 06/22/2005 20:06:47 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 00:10:02 [Permalink]
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These shitheads are not talking about a law; they want an amendment to the Constitution.
I'll pay close attention to which way my senators vote on this trivial crap.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 01:22:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
These shitheads are not talking about a law; they want an amendment to the Constitution.
I'll pay close attention to which way my senators vote on this trivial crap.
My bad, filthy, just didn't read close enough. Constitutional amendment, huh? How does that work exactly? I always thought constitutions are about what rights an individual has, not specific crimes. Do they specify punishments in the amendment as well?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 01:56:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
These shitheads are not talking about a law; they want an amendment to the Constitution.
I'll pay close attention to which way my senators vote on this trivial crap.
My bad, filthy, just didn't read close enough. Constitutional amendment, huh? How does that work exactly? I always thought constitutions are about what rights an individual has, not specific crimes. Do they specify punishments in the amendment as well?
Not to my knowledge, but I in no way resemble a Constitutional scholar. I only promised to defend it against all enemies, foreign and domestic. But I would think that federal law would set whatever punishments.
So, if this piece of legislative bilge should get through the Senate and be ratified by 3/4 of the states, what punishment might be imposed upon some kid with a flag do-rag? Or beer cuff? Or a patch on the seat of his britches, which, as I recall, was whined so loudly about in the early '70s? This could lead to some interesting lawsuits.
Perhaps I am missing something, but I don't seem to be seeing or hearing about a lot of flag desecration happening, in this country, at least. And I don't see any threat to national security if there was. Thus, I conclude that our leaders(?) are playing the super-patriot game in the grandstands again.
If they're so fucking patriotic, how come so few of their kids (any?) are in Iraq?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 06/23/2005 02:00:42 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 03:52:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Perhaps I am missing something, but I don't seem to be seeing or hearing about a lot of flag desecration happening, in this country, at least. And I don't see any threat to national security if there was.
Then it's just another way to artificially manufacture a reason to invade places like Ramallah, Libya, Gaza, Brazil, and Sweden to punish the evil-doers?
If it gets passed, I might consider taking a trip to the US embassy in Sweden for some flag desecration, just to show what I think about it. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 06:31:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
I always thought constitutions are about what rights an individual has, not specific crimes. Do they specify punishments in the amendment as well?
Well, the only Amendment to the U.S. Constitution which ever took away rights was repealed, later (see Amendments XVIII and XXI). Sure, it's a single data point, and doesn't describe a tendency or anything, but it represents the hope that any idiotic rights-stripping Amendment (like flag "desecration" [as if the flag were holy], or banning gay marriage) would ultimately be killed off by a more-sane government and public at a later date.
And yes, while the 18th Amendment prohibited alcohol, the actual legal details of the crimes involved were codified in the Volstead Act (actually titled "the National Prohibition Act"). Section 2 of the Amendment reads, "The Congress and the several States shall have concurrent power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation." In fact, Amendments 13, 14, 15, 23, 24 and 26 all carry similar text. Those which don't carry such language tend to be more about the internal workings of the Federal government. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 06:51:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Perhaps I am missing something, but I don't seem to be seeing or hearing about a lot of flag desecration happening, in this country, at least. And I don't see any threat to national security if there was.
Then it's just another way to artificially manufacture a reason to invade places like Ramallah, Libya, Gaza, Brazil, and Sweden to punish the evil-doers?
If it gets passed, I might consider taking a trip to the US embassy in Sweden for some flag desecration, just to show what I think about it.
Geez. I might just have to burn some flags. Not that I ever did that... [shifty eyes] |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 06:55:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Chippewa
Notice also that they don't define "physical desecration". Its assumed to be burning. What about displaying the flag up-side-down? At sea that means "ship in distress". With protesters it implies "country in distress." What about the flag in advertising or in clothing? How about a red white & blue beach towel? Doesn't bother me but what will the law say if it passes.
And, in my opinion, once again Congress is fiddling around with trivia so as not to be bothered with the real national problems.
The Chicago Tribune has an American Flag in the upper left hand corner. To recycle or throw away the paper is therefore "flag desecration".
And this from the same assholes who thought it important to change the name of french fries to freedom fries in the capitol cafeteria. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 08:32:54 [Permalink]
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If it passes, I'm going to have a case of toilet paper printed up with the flag on every single sheet.
Because that is what the flag will actually stand for at the moment the government decides it is a crime to "desecrate" it.
Some of us have bled for that fucking thing, and many of us have had people in our families die, and kill, for it.
Its ours, and no governmant has any legitimate right to try and tell us what we can or can't do with it.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 11:22:44 [Permalink]
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The wisdom of The Rude Pundit:
quote:
What the Real Desecration Is:
Let us say, and why not, that the Rude Pundit decides to get his nationalistic mojo workin' and needs himself an American flag. In order to get those Stars and Stripes, he doesn't head over to the Government Office of Official Flag-Givin' because, you know, no such office actually exists. Nope, instead, the Rude Pundit has to go shoppin'.
Yep, in order to get himself one of those sacred objects of our national pride, he's gotta head on over to the local Target (since the Rude Pundit would rather shove his hand into a fire ant pile than shop at Wal-Mart) or, you know, Stop 'N Shop, slam down his hard-earned cash, pathetically flirt with the cashier, bag that fucker, and head on home with his Made in China red, white, and blue (hey, maybe that's why the red is a little brighter). Then Target'll have to order some more flags. And somewhere in Wujiang City, slave-wage laborers or perhaps prisoners will get to work makin' more flags of freedom. Because if there's somethin' Americans love more than the U.S.A., it's cheap shit.
It would seem that the Rude Puundit feels pretty much the same as anyone who does his/her own thinking. The difference is that he says ot ever so much more eloquently....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 11:51:54 [Permalink]
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The Rude One is awesome.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2005 : 04:45:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
And this from the same assholes who thought it important to change the name of french fries to freedom fries in the capitol cafeteria.
You're F-ing kidding me, right? They actually suggested that?
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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