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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
 Posted - 07/12/2005 : 20:40:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
...You need to calm the fuck down! Your saying shit out of supidity and anger or frustration. You need to start respecting me more.
It appears the one who needs some calming is quoted here.
Many of us would appreciate it if you would present your ideas in a more cogent manner. I, for one, am often at work more than 12 hours a day, and would rather not have to spend the time searching for meaning in your posts (due to the formatting, the grammar, and the content).
Where is this perceived lack of respect? You started a topic here with several assertions and one question ("...what makes a person a skeptic?"). Your question was answered. Your assertions were questioned, which ought to be expected, since we are a bunch of skeptics. As the pages go on, you have refused to conform to any standard of logic, evidence, or presentation. When somebody points this out to you, you get defensive and claim we are not respecting you. We are giving you the highest respect we can give: we are actively considering what you say; however, it is not entirely clear to many of us what that is.
I feel I should explain my last sentence. We ask questions and demand proof in order to more fully understand. We have been doing just that to you since page 1. I hope you do not feel that our attempt to understand you is disrespectful, but I fear that is the case. |
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HYBRID
BANNED
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2005 : 20:47:43 [Permalink]
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I am afraid that you are incorrect. I was antagonized first. I was merely asking questions to provoke or try to get a type of thinking to present itself, and I found out that it is not possible. This is an experiment for myself, to see how people can imprison their minds, even in the smallest of situations, by things or information that has turned into dogma.
You first say that it is possible, but that it is not. So we pretend that it isn't, when a lot of things seem wrong. |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2005 : 21:01:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
I am afraid that you are incorrect. I was antagonized first. I was merely asking questions to provoke or try to get a type of thinking to present itself, and I found out that it is not possible. This is an experiment for myself, to see how people can imprison their minds, even in the smallest of situations, by things or information that has turned into dogma.
You first say that it is possible, but that it is not. So we pretend that it isn't, when a lot of things seem wrong.
You were not deliberately antagonized, by anyone. You were asked to provide just merit to your claims. You are the one who has offered that which is in contradiction to the accepted, and therefore the onus rests upon you to prove your claims.
This is the first accepted principle of logic. Logic is perhaps the best measure, we as humans have, intersubjectively, for finding the truth of a statement. Your statements lack an essential part of the logic statement, the premises are not shown to be true, or as close to truth as is possible.
You make statements without support. You've built your view based on a subjective reality, while logic and the scientific method attempt to define the world in as objective terms as possible for us.
I'd suggest visiting http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/papers/knowledgeselectors.html for some info on the selection of knowledge. It's really a rather interesting read.
See, skepticism is really attempting to compare what we think, what is claimed, etc, against what is objectively real.
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...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2005 : 21:27:17 [Permalink]
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2005 : 21:32:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
What academics? What are their names and their qualifacations? What are their fields of research? Where have they published in peer-reviewed journals and upon what aspect of the ToE?
I think it's about time you put some substance into your claims. Thus far, you have shown exaclty none.
quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
SO many. Go to google. There are many. Dr. Author David Horn, Dr. Richard Boulay, Michael Cremo Anthropologist, among some others. Finding them is not hard.
Googling for Dr. Author David Horn you'll find... "Your search - 'Dr. Author David Horn' - did not match any documents."
A Google search for Dr. Richard Boulay brings two hits. Learn a little about Dr. Richard Boulay, specializing in Gynecological Oncology, Obstetrics & Gynecology. His name also appears in a list with 1,145 other Allentown, Pennsylvania doctors at the bottom of this page. No mention of any connection to any research on evolution.
And from Googling for Michael Cremo, Anthropologist, some comments regarding Michael Cremo and his book, Forbidden Archeology...quote:
** "Anthropologist Richard Leakey says Cremo's ideas are nonsense which only stupid people can take seriously."
** "American anthropologist Jonathan Marks says Michael Cremo's stories are charming fictions for those who like the so-called 'popular anthropology for ignoramus.': 'It's a real collection of absurd figments.'"
** "The atmosphere of Cremo's lectures is reminiscent of once-popular speeches about UFOs."
** "In common with other reviewers, Wodak and Oldroyd drew a connection between Forbidden Archeology and the work of Christian creationists. 'As is well known,' they noted (p. 192), 'Creationists try to show that humans are of recent origin, and that empirical investigations accord with human history as recorded in the Old Testament. Forbidden Archeology (FA) offers a brand of Creationism based on something quite different, namely ancient Vedic beliefs.'"
As has been stated before, it is your responsibility to back up the claims you make, not ours. If you believe the theory of evolution, in its present form, to be without merit, state your reasoning, your evidence, and your sources. Your suggestion that we should research the work of these "experts" is useless, especially considering one of your three "experts" doesn't exist, one is an OBGyn with no apparent connection to evolution theory, and one is considered by at least some other reputable members of the scientific community to have less than sound credibility.
So, you named three names. The question was, "What academics? What are their names and their qualifications? What are their fields of research? Where have they published in peer-reviewed journals and upon what aspect of the ToE?" Any real answers to these questions? Or can we expect more ranting and raving about how us skeptics have a problem because we don't believe in your fantasy?quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
Bullshit! You need to calm the fuck down! Your saying shit out of supidity and |
| Edited by - GeeMack on 07/12/2005 21:33:00 |
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HYBRID
BANNED
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2005 : 21:54:37 [Permalink]
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And how do you plan on not giving me respect? How do you think it can be taken? I will address all of these other things in the morning. I think you need to google again my friend, because my books that I own say these people exist, and I will post somethings in the morning. As for the leakey's (I can tell they are your heroes, how cute) they make me laugh!
I don't give a fuck who says what about me.I will take you all on willingly as a hobbie everyday if time permits. Your intellect, and well as your agressive tactics are juvenile. I could care less about a group. In the morning! |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2005 : 21:55:55 [Permalink]
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The real disconnect between HYBRID and the rest of the posters here is that of philosophy.
While HYBRID is a post-modernist, possibly New Age, SFN-members are mostly scientific-minded. It is obviously the source of the frustration. I wonder if the chasm can be bridged.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2005 : 22:05:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Dr. Mabuse wrote:
I wonder if the chasm can be bridged.
You reckon? HYBRIDs reality is created (in his own words) in his own mind. This is not exactly what science says. Science (sometimes) requires repeatabily. I don't think we can repeat what goes on in HYBRIDs mind.
HYBRID, you've stated in the last few posts that you demand respect and also that you don't care what anyone thinks of you. Which is it?
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METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2005 : 22:08:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
And how do you plan on not giving me respect? How do you think it can be taken? I will address all of these other things in the morning. I think you need to google again my friend, because my books that I own say these people exist, and I will post somethings in the morning. As for the leakey's (I can tell they are your heroes, how cute) they make me laugh!
I don't give a fuck who says what about me.I will take you all on willingly as a hobbie everyday if time permits. Your intellect, and well as your agressive tactics are juvenile. I could care less about a group. In the morning!
I believe GeeMack stated that respect is earned, not given. Meaning that you, by your actions, will either earn the respect of the individuals on this board or not.
Hero-worship is not desirable when dealing with ideas in the realm of scientific inquiry. Here's why, I have a great deal of respect for Carl Sagan, however, the gentleman was apparently incorrect in much of what he thought with regard to the aftermath of a nuclear war. When this was shown to be the case, Dr. Sagan did not get upset and rant and rave about how his ideas were better, because they were his. He looked at the evidence as presented by those who were aware of the intricacies of the environment and the effects of nucluear fallout, and adjusted his conclusions with regard to his prediction of a 'nuclear winter'. Hero-worship leads directly into a logical fallacy known as argumentum ad authoritarium. Or the argument from authority.
If we are capable of bringing such emotion to bear within you, then apparently our opinion would seem to bother you. It would appear that you do 'give a fuck' about who says what about you. As for aggressive tactics, it would appear that you are the only insistent upon making threaths. I might suggest, less aggression and more rationalisation. You might actually get farther than attempting to frighten us. That is the only reason I can currently see for the threat to 'take us all on'. |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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Paulos23
Skeptic Friend
USA
446 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2005 : 22:09:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Doc, that is a good idea. |
You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2005 : 22:15:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
I am afraid that you are incorrect. I was antagonized first. I was merely asking questions to provoke or try to get a type of thinking to present itself, and I found out that it is not possible.
Unofficial Moderator Message follows:
HYBRID: If you think you have been antagonised, please indicate the instances. Please point them out, preferably by indicating what post on what page (for example, post #8 on page #1, second paragraph. Perhaps also a quote of the offending paragraph).
You see, I think you are mis-interpreting posts as hostile, possibly because you are not accustomed to the kind of language/terminology we use.
If you point out the offending sections maybe the poster (or someone else more accustomed with SFN mode of language) can explain in more detail, to clear up misunderstandings.
I think this is necessary in order to get the thread back on track.
Moderator message ends.
There are a few items which I'd like to address, but they were a few pages back. See what happens when you're busy away from the keyboard a few days. Dave_W seems otherwise engaged too.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2005 : 22:42:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
I think you need to google again my friend, because my books that I own say these people exist, and I will post somethings in the morning.
Yeah, well it helps if you actually spell the guy's name correctly. (Oh, I know. You don't feel spelling is important).
He meant Dr. Arthur David Horn, co-author of "Humanity's Extraterrestrial Origins: ET Influences on Humankind's Biological and Cultural Evolution." A summary of his book:
quote:
Arthur and Lynette Horn present their hypotheses on the extraterrestrial origins of our species. This book provides humankind with a new awareness that integrates many of the universal teachings for people of all walks of life, from many dimensions of truth. Val Valerian, author of the Matrix books, states “A thought-provoking journey that picks up where Zecharia Sitchin and William Bramley left off. A very vital piece of literature that provides a synthesis of existing work on human evolution, adds the unique perspective of anthropology, and starts us well on our way into unknown territory behind the evolution of humanoid life forms on planet Earth.” Dr. Horn was educated at Yale University and is a former professor of biological anthropology for fourteen years. He resigned from teaching evolution shortly after his research clearly proved to him that mankind developed, in part, from outside intervention by a higher intelligence as opposed to natural evolution.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 07/12/2005 22:42:48 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2005 : 23:02:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
HYBRID: If you think you have been antagonised, please indicate the instances. Please point them out, preferably by indicating what post on what page (for example, post #8 on page #1, second paragraph. Perhaps also a quote of the offending paragraph).
Moderator message ends.
When I pointed out to him that no one has attacked him, only his arguments, hybrid responded "Its not a verbal bash as much as intellectual, psychological, or just plain smart-allecy." So I don't think he has a problem with what people have been saying so much as their "tone." Or at least intially. Patience on all sides has been steadily decreasing.
I only posted this because the formatting of Hybrid's posts make them difficult to slog through.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 07/12/2005 23:10:28 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2005 : 03:25:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Ah but "Shorty," I do know you. I've met you a hundred times on these and other fora. I've met you a thousand times in the course of my life and travels. I've listened to you hurl baseless accusations in the media and pontificate upon nonsense in the halls of Congress. Rush Limbaugh speaks with your voice. I know you quite well, thank you.
But, let us try again, just for the hell of it: precisely what portions of the theory of evolutions do you object to and why?
Please try to avoid the temptation to reference new age and religious sites. They are merely more unsupported blather. Just spit it out in your own words.
Again, I reccommend the Logical Fallicies link.
Perhaps the above is the post that set him off, although as we scan through the thread, it look like he was working up to a conniption from the beginning. I think that this is HYBRID's first experience on a skeptic forum and fails to realize that hand-waving and foot stomping, and even holding your breath until your face turns blue simply won't cut it.
HYBRID, you recieved all of the respect that we automatically give to all who come here. You have lost that respect through your own machinations, and furious demands won't get any of it back.
But I have been described as having the patience of a corpse, so here's yet another chance to gain a little credibility:
quote:
But, let us try again, just for the hell of it: precisely what portions of the theory of evolutions do you object to and why?
Not so difficult a question, is it?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2005 : 06:59:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
Let me clear this up by saying that science in itself is not dogmatic, it is the powers that guide it that makes it that way. Science is a great thing when in the hands of the people, unforntunately, this is not totally the case.But in my reality, using my brain and evalutaing things myself, when trying to live in an infinite reality and cosmos, can be as important if not more sometimes than what some have used science to dictate what is totally true and totally not true.
You do realize that space is infinite, as in it goes on forever, as in we will never see all of it...
OK, Ace. You've finally succeeded in tweaking me off.
And you are...
A member here. Your condescention without reason is really aggrivating. I would suggest that continuing to use it will just piss more people off.
SO..
You asked the fucking question. Deal with it.
quote:
quote:
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You write at length concerning subjects you have absolutely no knowledge of as evidenced by your repeated claims that there is no body of evidence to support evolution.
Any cop can take a crime scene and make an innocent man guilty, what is your point? You can take bones from the earth and make them anything you want just by saying the words, and it still does not prove anything, junior, so calm down. I never repeated there was no evidence for a theory of evolution.
I said that evolution given the evidence in nature, and not in specific instances, is not a very good theory and has many problems that people do not wish to identify or acknowledge. Either due to ignorance or by choice.
Gee. more condescention. 38 year olds really love that. I ain't your junior. Knock it off.
I would not care if you were 106, its obvious that you can live your life based upon decades of garbage.
And your basis for this assumption is........ what? You haven't shown that what I have learned is garbage.
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No amount of hand waving makes the body of evidence that evolution occurs go away. Have you never heard of a strain of flavobacterium that lives off of nylon? Since nylon is a synthetic molecule and no flavobacterium could process it prior to it's invention in the 1930's, thats a pretty strong statement for the existance of evolution.
This has nothing to do with what I am talking about. I said that evolution is evident in life, but the transition from hominids to humans naturally as explained in the theory of evolution is what I said before, and I am not going to repeat, you can read right? Its right there.
"I said that evolution given the evidence in nature, and not in specific instances, is not a very good theory and has many problems that people do not wish to identify or acknowledge. Either due to ignorance or by choice."
How does the above statement not indicate that you don't believe that evolution is not a good theory and claim that there are specific instances where it has problems. Provide the evidence for these problems or move on.
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At this point, you have shown exactly no evidence general or specific concerning the flaws in evolution. Really, support your assertation.
Oh my god, If you don't know, I can't tell you man, just forget I exist if its like that. I gave you examples, take it for what you want, its there.
Nope. You didn't. Nice dodge of the issue.
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Likewise, you make unsupported assertions and then don't back them up. And I swear to God, if you use the "common sense" arguement, I'm gonna scream.
What assertations? Common sense? Anyway...
Common anti-science/anti-evolution tactic. A claim that common sense dictates that the theory cannot be true.
Didn't say that either..
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You write much to appear wise, but reveal instead your ignorance on the subjects.
How so?I haven't revealed that much of what I really know, so slow down. When certain things need to be address, I shall address them, but first things first, you are avoiding some interesting things that I have previously posted either in website or post, do you know what they are? Will you address them please, before going off the deep end buddy, your kind of scary me here?
You have shown your arguementation style. It speaks volumes about your knowledge.
That is the problem with you, you think you have to have a style of argumenting, which really shows how indotrinated your brain is. The human mind is capable of infinite possiblities, and trying to put the mind into a style or fitted into one particular thing is just dumb, you deal with it!~
The po |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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